FPS as a squad combat simulator e.g. Battlefield 3

[Collingwood]

I know that many of us here don't like first person shooters (FPS), but after seeing some youtubes of Battlefield 3 I thought it looked really well done, visuals wise. So I got it for fun, with no serious plans to get into shooters. Yes, it's cinematic - the lighting effects, destructible terrain etc are awesome. CM:SF types would love some of the maps. It is definitely the best looking game I have seen. It should be, for the budget those guys work with.

It struck me that it would make a good combat simulator game if played right. Visuals aren't everything, there are definitely abstractions in the game and how you handle your weapons, but every game has compromises. A first (that I know of) for a shooter is that you suffer suppression. Lots of near misses and bullets splatting into the wall next to you makes your vision blurry and your reactions slow. No more "I am impervious to incoming fire". Lights will dazzle and blind you. Smoke and dust blind you.

So I got on-line to see how people handle the game. I was really disappointed. Not with the game, but the way it is played.

For a game that organises players into squads, and allows VOIP communication, there was little to no squad coordination. Everyone runs around like 4 year olds at a party that have had too much sugar, only murdering each other. I was hoping to find squads working together: overwatch, bounding movement, find fix and fire. Maybe there are lots of people out there playing the game using real world tactics, I haven't looked long enough. Perhaps people aren't using careful tactics since as in most shooters if you die, you "re-spawn" again somewhere else after only a few seconds. If you had to wait 5 minutes to rejoin the action then maybe people would be more circumspect.

I admit my online performances are completely humiliating - my reactions are simply too old for these guys: I have done very well on firing ranges, but my thumbs can't twiddle a joystick quickly enough to beat these young guns - fair enough. If only I could find a server for old farts

It strikes me that if enough people got together using the proper tactics, despite the fact it is a FPS, there is scope there to reasonably simulate infantry squad combat, and dominate anyone else not being tactically sound.

I am interested to hear if anyone here has played it or uses good squad coordination, and their thoughts on using the game as a tactical squad simulator, a bit like CMSF but "you are the grunt".

[Ranger33]

Project Reality is what you are looking for. It's a mod for Battlefield 2 that can take a bit of work to set up, but is entirely focused on realistic tactics and communication. You will quickly get the boot if you don't play along by the rules. Another option is ArmA 2, which plays a bit differently but same basic idea. I believe there is also a Project Reality mod for ArmA 2, which I haven't tried.

Also check out Red Orchestra 1&2 for realistic-ish WW2 action.

[Collingwood]

Thanks heaps for those heads-ups Ranger. They look good, Red Orchestra is interesting, I'd seen it mentioned but I never checked it out until now.

At the moment I use my son's PS3 for BF3 (now I am showing my age) so perhaps a better PC set-up is in order, I doubt I could run RO or Arma on my current one. Have you played RO? Does it have many maps to choose from ?

[Thomm]

I would really like to set up a "pool table" HMG test in OpFP/ArmA, and see what results can be achieved in these games, but unfortunately, I lack the skills to set something like that up in the editor.

Best regards,

Thomm

[noxnoctum]

Ya it sounds like you'd much prefer Project Reality or ARMA2 or maybe Darkest Hour (mod for Red Orchestra, personally I think RO2 is greatly inferior to the original) Unfortunately RO1 has almsot no server population anymore. Darkest Hour though still usually has a full or close to full 70 player server during peak hours. PR has a large playerbase.

PR has an astounding amount of teamplay even in public servers. It is the norm for everyone to have mics, use them, and follow orders from squad leaders and commander. If you don't you get kicked pretty quick.

RO/DH do not have that level of teamplay, but are still great games.

Also I've never really played the vanilla BF series (I got BF2 only for PR), but from what I've heard BF3 is considered by many the worst of the series apart from maybe BC2.

[Saferight]

Darkest Hour and RO1 seem to be completely dead except for the Russian servers for Ro1 an the 29Th's servers for DH occasionally having some players. RO2 is better than any CoD crap but i would rather play DH or RO1 anyday... Arma 2 an the whole ofp/arma series are pretty cool and really shine with the mods. All i play is CMx2 games, Arma 2, and every now an then RO2, i have bf3 for xbox but lost interest. Bf3 seems to be almost like a mash of CoD an Arma, the initial surprise of a game like it for consoles wore off quick for me. Arma 2 ceases to amaze as far as a FPS goes. Like CM it has constant re playability.

[noxnoctum]

Yep RO1 is more or less dead. DH still has a close to full server most times during peak hours though.

[Collingwood]

Thanks very much guys for the responses, I've got a few things to look into now. cheers

[Wodin]

Well whilst playing ARMA 2 when it got to the command part I realized CMSF was the game I was wanting to play funny enough. CMSF just did the tactical side better. So I'm not sure any FPS style tactical game will play well as a tactical wargame compared to an actual tactical wargame like CMSF.