Newbie help in China

[magic8796]

Hello all! First time playing the game (love it so far!) and I need some help in China playing as the Axis.

Help. I seem to be stuck!

It is February 18, 1940. My goal was to secure the coast, capture Nanning and hold the line in the North. I have brought additional land forces to the mainland. I have used carrier air to soften up targets. I have replaced the HQ in the Southwest with Yamasita. I have used naval bombardment in Foochow.

Here's what I've experienced:

I have attacked the Chinese unit in Nanning repeatedly and the Chinese rebuild it to full strength every turn and the Nanning defender has taken a horrible toll on my Carrier Air - getting 2 or 3 hits every turn. To date, I have only destroyed 2 Chinese units in all of China. I can't seem to advance onto the unoccupied mountain hexes.

Bombarding Foochow has resulted in significant losses to my BB's and CA's.

The Armies around Wuhan just seem stuck. They can't inflict any significant damage to the Chinese units to their West and they cant really move. The army due South of Wuhan can't move to the empty hex to it's South East and it can't attack the Chinese army directly to it's West. All it can do is grind itself down on the Army in Changsa.

There has to be some fundamental tactic or strategy that I'm missing. Any suggestions?

I know that historically the campaign in China was a long drawn out slog, but what is a realistic goal here? How much do I need to attrit the Chinese (and how far do I have to push them back) in order to neutralize their ability to effectively counterattack? What level of forces will the Japanese be required to keep in China long term?

Thanks in advance for any help. Great game so far, but defeating any Chinese units (let alone just being able to maneuver my Japanese forces) is a little frustrating.

[Amadeus]

Do you research Inf and Mot already? If not take 2 chits for both. Next I would try to concentrate on following targets (small numbers) one after another. First you need to attack with your special forces cause they soften and reduce moral/readiness on defending units. That is important cause chinese HQ's rises the moral every turn. On target 1, the army strength 7, you could attack at 3 sides and you have the units in the near. If you attack a bit smart you could take up to 5/6 units for that. Maybe you won't need a special force here. After that try the city. Next is Foochow but you need armies and special forces as must. The marine vessels only inflict reliably damage to the city at worth <=7 and only if they have own strength 9 or 10. But you do not need them absolutely. After progress in research it will become easier. Build Tac Bomber too. They reduce moral at 30 % with one hit same as special forces.

[PowerGmbH]

Here is what normally helps ( at least against the AI ) for Nanning:

0) forget about other Goal Positions. Go on defense mode for all(!) other Fronts. possibly retreat to more secure positions ( also Around Peking)

1) Use at least your 2 Special Forces.

2) Use 2 Armys (one of them preferably the Wuhan,Level 11-12 Army) better 3 and optional Corps.

3) As you have done, the Position of the HQ is ok.

4) Wait for good Weather, May - Aug.

5) Use your 3 Carriers (full strength) and position them in a way they can reach Nanning.

6)Place your fighter in range as well.

7) Check to have also "liberated" the Position 1 NEast of Nanning, here it could be good to put the "Bumper" Corps, this one shal absorb the Attacks from the North. If not you may need an aditional HQ and free this tile before.

3-4 Turns before Attack:

Prepare a Army for Amphibious Landing.

Place Units around Nanning Specially the two SpecForces. Dont Attack

2-1 Turns before Attack:

bring the "Left behind" HQ to the Position, depending on how you move it may take 2 Turns more.

As soon as the HQ is "on place" you wait one more Turn so the Units have the necessary Morale and Supply.

Amphibious Landing 1 Tile SW of Nanning AFTER the Tile is your colour by advancing units

Air Attac over nanning by 1) Airfleet 2) 3x Carriers ( Soften up the Units by 3 de-entrench + Morale down )

Attack Turn:

in this Order: Again, Airfleet + 3 x Carrier and then the 2x Spec Units Attack and move away. Now Check which Army may Move Inside (before!) then the 2 Armys move on their places and Also Attack.

Normally the ennemy unit is downed, at least if it is a Corps. your one Moves finally "in" if not it may be done with the HQ.

If it didnt work, you may better wait the next season: Reinfore your Carriers, and bring back to >5 Supply the Units to get to 10.

And prepare again the Army that is 1 SW of Nanning to get Supply >10. this is also possible by advancing the HQ, in worst case.

Hope this was the Right Order.

Anyway the Goals in China are mostly Nanning and Chansha, so dont panic, you have 5 Years for two Cities....

[Amadeus]

Anyway the Goals in China are mostly Nanning and Chansha, so dont panic, you have 5 Years for two Cities....

With all due respect I free at least 5 Cities in 2 years. This is only a logical strategic procedure.

Don't use Carriers too early cause then they will inflict no damage. Odds 0:0 or 1:0

If you use them after Spec Units they catch 0:1 (when they have full strength) what means up to 6 damages to the defending unit. If you focus on Nanning you may first free Hanoi. Hanoi has no defending unit after the fall of France. Sometimes I take Hanoi in the second turn what means there is a defender at strength 3 - no problem anyway. With Hanoi you could transfer a HQ for better supply when attacking Nanning.

No matter what you wanna do it is better to attack constantly from the beginning cause later China has better Inf on adverse terrain for your forces.

If you like we can play only Nanning in Multiplayer to show you how it will work.

[Amadeus]

Here is what I mean. I made this on turn 4 or 5. First take the Corps, then the Spec in the north of Hanoi. After this you catch good odds. When taking the Army in the east you can attack swith places with the Spec and the Spec could attack in the same turn. Now take the 12er Army. You will get a 0:3 odd. If the Corps still survive take the carriers and they will have 0:1 odds. Now chance for surviving in Nanning. Btw. Indochina gives you additional mpps for Japan. Similar situations you could make at the goals I am telling you before.

[magic8796]

Thanks for the replies. I will try the new tactics. I'm still learning the strengths and weaknesses of each unit. At what point should I be winding down offensive action and pulling out units to prepare for the Pacific campaign?

[Ancient Demon]

I think Nanning should be the first target, and you should occupy the space NE of the city on the first turn (road/rail link).

[david12345]

Hello Magic.

I used to have the same problem you do. Here is the strategy that works well for me, and I have tested it against several good players with excellent results. It is quite different from what I see above, but as they say, there is more than one way to skin a cat:

1. Foochow: Hit it with all your air (set to naval attack), move a unit down to get control of the square to the north, then attack and land with your amphib. Now do other things. Funny thing in SC, HQ's have trouble assigning right away some times, so I work on other units. When I come back, the HQ will be allowed to support your amphib. Now attack. The next turn or 2 continue to attack with air and the adjacent unit supported by your level 8 HQ. You should move the other army (11th) down the roadto help. Also, move the HQ down 1 to get better supply. I generally don’t need the shore bombardment, as you said, it is expensive. Depending on luck, Foochow should not last longer than 2-3 turns. Also, although the cost in air is high, your other units are getting experiance and your enmey is spending money fixing Foochow. Now move in a corps to cover for partisans and head all units north. Be careful of Chinese counter attacks on the departing units. By the way, don't upgrade carrier planes yet. They will just be more expensive to repair after the battle and you don't need the upgrade now anyway. If you find this not working to your satisfaction, you can just leave Foochow, it really is not necessary for victory anyway.

2. During the first turns (ASAP), put 2 chits in inf. weapons and 2 chits in motorization. When they hit, sell one back. Getting inf weapons and motor quick is THE key to China operation. I can’t overstress this.

3. Repair and move units from Manchuria to the battle.

4. As money allows, I try to build one SF a turn and transport it to China. Sack the level 5 HQ for a 7.

5. Very important: check which units are supported each turn by HQ's. Set them to auto assist or manual. The game has a habit of supporting the wrong units. Best HQ's with best units. Your next objective is Chengchow. If the Chinese have left the unit to the southeast of Chengchow in place, get it first. Be very careful with the Japanese army that starts with experience (expedition army). This army is another key to the campaign. Don't let this unit lose steps and try to get the final kill with this unit as often as possible to build experience. This unit will become a monster as time goes on if played properly and kept over strength. Chengchow can be hit with carriers if the long range is upgraded (but don’t upgrade the air warfare yet, you don’t need it now), also you have the fighter. Speaking of attack, this is the order I use:

6. First artillery (not available here, I know) and fighters to lower entrenchment. Next tac air to damage and lower morale. Next SF units to further damage and lower morale. Finally, finish them with your armies. As I said before, try to let the most experienced unit get the final kill. Don't worry if your first couple of units, like the fighters, take damage as it will pay off. Once Chengchow is gone, you should have your inf weapon and motor research hitting about now. Upgrade all combat units with both. This is expensive and takes time, but well worth it. Fix damaged units before upgrading as it is cheaper that way. You will have to back away from enemy units to upgrade. Continue building SF units as much as possible. Also build garrisons to cover partisans. Keep Manchuria covered by weak units to stop partisans as well.

7. I don't go after Nanning. Here is why. My attack route will be the far north. I prefer not to divide my forces. Taking Nanning ups American entry date. Let the Americans continue to send them money; it’s not a big problem.

8. With the upgraded units and the order of attack I gave earlier, smash through the north corps. As soon as you get a hole, force march everything you can into said hole. Don’t let the Chinese cut them off, keep a unit in each square on the road. Force marching upgraded SF’s into north china is devastating for the Chinese. Now you make a beeline for Lanchow. If you can beat the retreating Chinese to Lanchow, the campaign is just about over. You don’t want them to get the bulk of their units to the alternate capitals as that lengthens the campaign considerably. Once Lanchow is taken, you can circle down and wear out the Chinese enroute Chungking. Once Chungking falls, put enough strength to hold it from counter attacks only – no need to take Nanning or Changchow.

9. Now just continue in the north until China falls. Use the attack order I gave, and keep the expeditionary unit at max strength. By the time China falls, you should have a bunch of highly experienced units ready to hit the back door on Russia.

10. Using this strategy, China is generally done by mid 42 at the latest, even against opponents who play better than I. PM me if you would like a multiplayer game, I could show you.

[SeaMonkey]

Here's an alternative, forget China, it's too expensive, instead chip away where you can get 0-0 attack results or better to max experience. Rotate them in and out of combat when they are maxed readiness and morale keeping the diminished next to an HQ(9 supply). Move your units into locations to defend the coast and good counterattack advantages, make the Chinese come to you. Use your CVs to only kill off Chinese units that you can get to strength 4 or less, check their experience and make sure R & M < 40, as low as possible makes easy kills without CAG losses.

If you want, do take Nanning with the above strategy of DoWing FIC first and surround the place. Now build your tanks, research IW, motors, and Tks and concentrate on taking the SRA, especially the oil.

Now that you have a couple of well experienced Army groups and it should be the spring of 42, attack USSR and with German coordination the Reds will be toast early on, or....... think about India.:cool:

[Amadeus]

...and concentrate on taking the SRA, especially the oil.

...

What is SRA?

[PowerGmbH]

Hello Magic.

Here is the strategy that works well for me, and I have tested it against several good players with excellent results

7. I don't go after Nanning. Here is why. My attack route will be the far north. I prefer not to divide my forces. Taking Nanning ups American entry date. Let the Americans continue to send them money; it’s not a big problem.

.

You give me to think! this seems to me like an exploit and a "non-historic" behaviur that gives more sucsess..

I found it always "important" to have a Rail-Link up to Singapore in order to have Supply Level 8.

I think this advantage would be important enough, no? Any thoughts? should there be more reasons than the above in order to take Nanning?

[SeaMonkey]

SRA = Southern resource area, DEI, Borneo, Malaya, Philippines, etc. Historically this is what the Japanese wanted access to, this resource area, but they believed(incorrectly) that any move in that direction would immediately bring UK and USA into the conflict, hence PH.

Easy to defend with an abundance of oil and rubber the SRA(sans Philippines) presents a unique historical alternative as I'm sure UK and the Dutch were in no position to resist Japanese advances and FDR would be hard pressed to get Congress to go to war for protection of European colonial possessions.

[magic8796]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Still playing my first game and I'm wondering when the Chinese will run out of Infantry!! Good grief!

[Amadeus]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Still playing my first game and I'm wondering when the Chinese will run out of Infantry!! Good grief!

Take in mind that you or any (AI) player could rebuy lost units for less mpp. These units are marked with * in the production screen. AND China is getting support in case of mpp from the Allies. So you can't bet of lower pressure from China.

[xwormwood]

At least if the unit was in supply when it got destroyed.

Units found out of supply when destroyed can't be repurchased for the reduced price.