NEDForce (contains spoilers)

[Rokko]

Hi everybody.

I just finished a game of this awesome scenario. Played as German vs AI on Elite difficulty. As for the map: In my opinion it has the best map of all the scenarios delivered with the Commonwealth module, I also noticed some part of it was recycled for CW First Clash (Another great scenario, but a little unbalanced against the AI though).

I took some screenshots and notes while playing and thought I'd share them.

My force consisted of 1 Waffen-SS Grenadier batallion minus it's 4th company. Mostly consisting of regulars and veterans. As support I got 2 x 2 120mm heavy mortars and a bunch of 81mm mortars.

Also part of Kampfgruppe Meyer are 3 Panther companies, though only companies in name, consisting only of 3 - 5 Panthers each, totaling 9 Panther tanks with many Green crews. To pave their way a few recon and engineer sections from the Panther batallions staff company accompany the tanks.

Due to early intel of some foxhole positions and what seems a deployment line of enemy tanks these are given a preperatory bombardment.

The terrain offers very good cover on the left and right flank. The center is mostly open.

I divide the Kampfgruppe among these 3 sectors and press mostly on the left where the mounted recon men move fastly to find any forward defenders. Each company gets a Panther company. The strongest one with 5 tanks is held in the center as reserve.

One Aufklärer section comes under fire from an enemy sniper team. They retreat into a building, take the snipers' position under suppressive fire while the second section closes in for the kill. One man gets away temporarily.

The battle reaches an early climax as the Panthers, after going into a good firing position far forward on the left flank, spot the bulk of the enemy's tank forces. A vicious tank duel over 900m ensues with 3 Panthers facing 6 Shermans in total, 2 of them Fireflies. One Panther recieves a hit from a Firefly that knocks out it's main gun and panics the Green crew. Another hit bounces harmlessly off the thick hull armor. The crew abandons the tank with only 2 men lightly wounded and the tank is finally knocked out. The Company commander's Panther finally has moved into a better position and can participate in the firefight. In the end, 6 smouldering wrecks decorate the road to the village.

Soon after vicious artillery barrage hits the firing of the Panthers' without any warning. Luckily, the Panthers had joined their company commander's tank in the nearby orchard and the barrage went into an empty field. The already knocked out Panther recieves several hits and starts to burn. 2 Grenadiers whose platoon was sitting in a hedge a little to close to the barrage were wounded.

The line of knocked out Shermans, 6 in total.

And here are their butchers, after repositioning into the orchard:

The knocked out Panther after being set ablaze by several top armor penetrations from British artillery. The smoke columns in the distance give prove of the heavy battle that happened:

On the right, another tank battle happens. 3 Panthers against 3 Shermans, one of them a Firefly. The Shermans are in a good position within an orchard and one Panther recieves a hit from the Firefly. The tank's radio-operator is wounded or killed and the Crew abandons the tank. Luckily, his comrades take out the remaining Shermans and the abandonned tank is occupied again essentially without any damage. Two more Shermans try to flee and consequently get knocked out from shots in the flank.

With the enemy tanks done for the Grenadiers advance alongside the Panthers.

I didn't take many notes or screenshots of the following close combat, but it was vicious and the British foxhole positions proved to be very tough.

Grenadiers on the right advancing alongside a Panther through a high corn field:

German HMGs pump countless rounds into the enemy foxhole positions.

[Rokko]

A barrage of 40 81mm rounds go into a position in platoon strength (formerly), that kept anoying me and hindering my advance right until the end of the battle.

Since that position had already been taken under fire in the preperatory bombardment, the fire came swiftly and was spot on:

In the end, I had suffered 9 KIA, 17 WIA and one tank destroyed. Several more were lightly wounded. The enemy casualties were a lot higher. In the end, the Panthers produced a real carnage on the now unprotected foxholes (One anti-tank gun in a slit trench had been spotted early on by my infantry and was knocked out without causing any damage).

I believe that I already took out the only FO team they had in the preperatory bombardment, so they couldn't effectively bring their artillery to weigh and could never use their CAS (thank god).

It was a really great battle and I had lots of fun playing it, but I also noted some things that somehow annoyed me:

The British positions were really b**** to combat. The game can't handle foxholes well it seems.

When you have foxholes, placed behind bocage, placed within an orchard, placed behind a high wheat field and placed on a slope, then you must tremble. You can never really aim at them, tanks, firing from elevated positions pump round after round into the hedges pointlessly and infantry can only target the foxholes after already being in the hedge (of course, they get butchered before).

Also, I somehow think the troops (on both sides) were too firm or too motivated and experienced. The Brits clung to their positions for too long and my SS grenadiers kept attacking under fire for too long as well. This probably to make fun battles in H2H were both sides can mutually fight to the last man, but I personally prefer battles with more brittle troops (CW 18 Platoon is a great example!)

But all in all, I had a blast!

Thank you George MC for providing this great scenario.

Some more thins I noted, that were not related to this particular scenario but to the game:

Soldiers tend to move too far into openings in hedges (bot tall and low bocage) where they are very unprotected.

Soldiers bunching together is still a big problem to me. To often have I seen two men going down from one bullet/ one burst.

Targeting high fields and foxholes behind walls/hedges is annoying. Foxholes should be placable directly near a hedge (without work around and spotting oddities) and should be useless when placed behind it. When you are underground and there is an earthen berm or a wall in front you, you cannot look and shoot through it.

Tank rounds should be able to penetrate bocage to some degree. Not the earthen berms, but the foliage above. As it is now, tanks only shoot at the berms which only causes minor suppression. I am somewhat afraid this would make troops behind bocage to vulnerable to tank HE, though.

[George MC]

Hi Rokko

Great AAR Many thanks for taking the time to play this one through and post your screenies and comments. I'm away from the game just now so the following comments are done from memory. I think they are correct...

"The British positions were really b**** to combat. The game can't handle foxholes well it seems.

When you have foxholes, placed behind bocage, placed within an orchard, placed behind a high wheat field and placed on a slope, then you must tremble. You can never really aim at them, tanks, firing from elevated positions pump round after round into the hedges pointlessly and infantry can only target the foxholes after already being in the hedge (of course, they get butchered before)."

Yeah the foxholes behind bocage is a pain - bit I don't think that is a game issue per se. The bocage has raised banks so placing the foxholes just such they have line of sight just beyond the bocage means you have to get your infantry close to engage. The wheat and slope situations are current game engine limitations - it's known about and it's possible it could be on the BFC to do list.

"Also, I somehow think the troops (on both sides) were too firm or too motivated and experienced. The Brits clung to their positions for too long and my SS grenadiers kept attacking under fire for too long as well. This probably to make fun battles in H2H were both sides can mutually fight to the last man, but I personally prefer battles with more brittle troops (CW 18 Platoon is a great example!)"

If I recall the German unit in RL had a load of Russians in it's ranks. I'm sure I changed the motivation levels to reflect this. Also the panzer crews were pretty new to combat so again I think a lot were green etc with reduced levels of motivation. In saying that it did fight well a lot of the time so you should find a bit of a mix. NCOs and officers are generally good tough so if you kept your Germans under command then that should work.

The Brits held the line in this action. I'm not sure but I'm pretty certain one chap may well have got a medal for re-crewing a Sherman Firefly and engaging the attacking panthers. It's always a bit of lottery i find selecting the experience/motivation levels. I tried to reflect the units RL make up and experience/motivation levels but I think in-game they are dialled up slightly higher - least ways it sometimes feels that way when playing.

"But all in all, I had a blast!

Thank you George MC for providing this great scenario."

Well I'm pretty chuffed you enjoyed it so much - thanks

[Michael Emrys]

As for the map: In my opinion it has the best map of all the scenarios delivered with the Commonwealth module...

A lovely map indeed. I just took a look at it. But what I am wondering is, is it available or can it be made available as a QB map?

Michael

[A Canadian Cat]

Excellent AAR. Thanks for posting. I recently played this against a human opponent. I sent my main force in the centre with a company on the left. It was a very hard fight and I had artillery dropped on my advancing troops twice to good effect. And those fireflys are nasty. In the end I had no fully operational Panthers. Two immobilized and two with out main gun. I prevailed but we fought to nearly the last man.

[Publius]

I just finished this scenario this morning. I attacked down the left and actually never used any of my artillery. It took me forever to get my infantry where I wanted I before I launched my main assault with only 30 minutes remaining. Unknowingly, I had already knocked out all but two Allied tanks before starting my main assault. I then pretty much swept all before me without much resistance.

I only got a tactical victory, probably because I didn't get enough troops off the map. My casualties were about twice as heavy as the OP's were. I only lost one Panther but suffered at least five disabled guns (something of a pet peeve of mine where I seem to get a lot of one-shot, one-kills on my main armament).

[Rokko]

Excellent AAR. Thanks for posting. I recently played this against a human opponent. I sent my main force in the centre with a company on the left. It was a very hard fight and I had artillery dropped on my advancing troops twice to good effect. And those fireflys are nasty. In the end I had no fully operational Panthers. Two immobilized and two with out main gun. I prevailed but we fought to nearly the last man.

Thats exactly what I would expect. I have taken a look at the unit settings in the editor and most have "High" or "Normal" motivation, which is pretty good, only very few are at "Low" setting.

On low a squad will likely rattle or break after suffering 1 or 2 casualties already. This could cause much less overall casualties and more realistic outcomes, if broken units had a possibilty to exit maps or would surrender more easily. This would also spare us much annoyance of stumbling into broken stragglers hiding in the grass who often manage to gun down someone needlesly before finally being killed.

I guess my own best move was positioning the 3 Panthers near the orchard on the left flank. That saved me a lot of trouble.

My casualties were about twice as heavy than the OP's were.

I suppose HE saves blood

At least on your own side. Why not use when you are given it? The effectiveness of the mortars on these platoon positions with the foxholes seemed moderate at best, though (as it should be). They still managed to put up a fight afterwards.

That and accidentally taking out the enemy FO. It seems their calling of artillery took so long afterwards, that they could only hit positions I had already left in forwards motion.

[Publius]

I suppose HE saves blood

At least on your own side. Why not use when you are given it? The effectiveness of the mortars on these platoon positions with the foxholes seemed moderate at best, though (as it should be). They still managed to put up a fight afterwards.

That and accidentally taking out the enemy FO. It seems their calling of artillery took so long afterwards, that they could only hit positions I had already left in forwards motion.

I suppose I could have used it as a pre-planned mission, but once the game starts I have a bad habit of never getting my FOs in position to do anything before they get seen and killed. In this one a well planned Allied artillery strike took mine out before he had a chance to see anything.

Once I really got going, my Panthers were able to fire at will into the Allied foxholes and I didn't really feel the need to halt and wait for an artillery mission.

[Sublime]

I played this months ago. Forget against who. I was the Brits, and lost fairly badly. It was incredibly bloody, I placed my TRPs just right so I basically gave his attack 15 minutes of nonstop 25 lber airburst fire and really did a number on his infantry. But I lost the long range tank duel, my fireflies got KO'd early and only got a couple of panthers. I managed a hail mary deep flank on the left (facing german attack) after losing my fireflies with a sherman. He literally went around the entire flank and back of the SS force, and got back on the road to attack. Unfortunately he spotted two panthers and kept turning the hull to face with the gun so he didnt fire for about 45 seconds. The last 15 seconds of the turn he got hit by two rounds and brewed up =(

After that I let him approach. Every ambush took some SS but cost me more dearly. Every repositioning was sniped at by the remaining hordes of Panthers. I knew air support was coming but I needed it NOW, and the situation collapsed with the last of my armor. After that my infantry would engage his, and then get pounded by his tanks. Most of them he stood off with, forcing me to try to seek out his tanks with my PIATs by moving them, which always drastically reduces the chances of a kill with them. In retrospect staying in the foxholes was maybe a mistake, he seemed to spot them most of the time and then I'd be forced to either miserably watch my men get nailed hiding in their foxholes by DF tank fire, or let them shoot back and at least maybe kill some SS before they got taken out. After losing half a platoon this way I decided it was all or nothing and actively started trying to rush my PIAT teams in dashes (especially in the wheat field) towards his armor. Some got killed this way, others did manage to start shooting rounds at the panthers.

I played a hide and seek game with his tanks, most attacks failed miserably. However one PIAT team (a named character forget whom) did KO one Panther then immobilized a second. They were gunned down as well.

My ATGs this entire time were pinging 6 lber rounds off the panthers. Unfortunately pinging was all they did at all and they were eventually wiped out. And that was it, we cease fired as I pulled my battered remnants back (which amounted to perhaps a platoon total) The Typhoons had eventually arrived, however the either 9 or 15 minutes (forget which) was too long to save us.