Doug Beman Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 what sort of reasonable changes would you make? I'm not talking about "put in a platoon of Pershings vs a platoon of King Tigers," I'm talking about maybe changing an experience level here, or a topographical feature there, or making a certain building taller/shorter. Here's what I'd do to Last Defense: Change the Hellcats to Sherman 75s, maybe Jumbo 75s. Then, make them enter much earlier, say turn 4 or 5. Here's my reasoning: as it stands, IMHO, the biggest question about this battle is "can the Germans get their armor into position to support the infantry close-up without exposing themselves to the Hellcats (which can easily destroy all 3 German tanks on the first turn they're present)" If the German player can get his tanks up there, he can whomp away on the US infantry, and the buildings offer very good protection against the Hellcats' efforts, plus which if the German tanks are in position, the Hellcats are the ones maneuvering, and the Germans get the first shot, and... Changing to Shermans would make it almost impossible for the US player to do what the AI does to me, ie sit the Hellcats at the top of the road and dominate the battle with their ability to kill even the Tiger at the associated ranges. HOWever, bringing the Shermans in at the current time would mean that, if the German player were on the ball, the Shermans would never get a chance to shoot at the German armor, what with all the buildings and stuff. Bringing the Shermans in earlier would give the US player the chance to make them an effective part of the effort to keep the Germans out of the town in the first place, rather than having Hellcats that are part of the effort to drive the Germans back out of the town. This opinion reflects my observations from playing LD about 4 times from each side, but only against the AI (nobody wants to PBEM with me, sniff sniff) What sorta changes would you make? DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krm Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 I'd trade one of the 88's in Riesberg for two PzIVJ to enter as reinforcements later in the scenario, just for fun As it is, I think the 2 88's can too easily take out all of the Shermans relatively quickly, with some luck. To remove one would open up a greater axis of advance for the Amis, but including the Panzers as reinforcements, say around turn 15 would make for a fiery end Doesn't make much sense, but oh well, I think it would be fun! P.s I agree with what you suggest for last defense Doug. I'd also add some bigger artillery, just to see the town go splat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webs Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 "as it stands, IMHO, the biggest question about this battle is "can the Germans get their armor into position to support the infantry close-up without exposing themselves to the Hellcats (which can easily destroy all 3 German tanks on the first turn they're present)" Really? I don't see the Hellcats as any kind of threat. Sit your Panzer 850m away and pick them off like pigeons while their shells shatter on your armour. The one thing I'd change is to randomize their appearance, or occasionally provide something with a bigger gun. Right now, if you just set your Panzer up at the back of the map when you expect the Hellcats, the Hellcats are mincemeat. ------------------ Laurie Nyveen a.k.a. Webs, member of the WarBirds training staff ___________________ Editor, Netsurfer Digest - http://www.netsurf.com/nsd/index.html 101 Sqn opus-in-progress - http://101.warbirds.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 Personally I would drop the "Last Defence" scen. altogether. Replace it with a 'meeting engagement'. Mainly to show how the AI performs not only on the attack but how it responds when on the attack to a mobile opponent. Also to show how a more fluid situation would play out. IMO, one town defence scen. in the demo is enough. ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beamup Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 Or what would be really great... if I can dream... the map Fionn and Moon were playing on in the AARs. That would be WONDERFUL. But, knowing what I do about demos, I realize a lot of the code & data were taken out... so it might not be possible without a lot of extra work. But, any new scenario would be great, and given that they seem to be "drop-ins" I'd hope we could get _something_. Thoughts, Steve? Pretty please with sugar and a cherry on top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 I have to agree with Beamup on that one. We have all probably read the AAR's from Martin and Fionn (at least once), and seen what they did. How many of us are sitting here wondering "Well, what if I set it up this way?" or did this or did that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 and now we return to classical music... [This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 11-14-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianc Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 <<Really? I don't see the Hellcats as any kind of threat. Sit your Panzer 850m away and pick them off like pigeons while their shells shatter on your armour.>> Hmmm... Don't be so sure; I tried that strategem on my last attempt. The Tiger bounced one of the Hellkitties, missed the next one, then promptly got its gun knocked out by a turret hit. Be careful. That led to a curious situation. This mishap killed\wounded no one in the tank, and at least one MG was still functioning. When I tried to use the Tiger as a mobile MG pillbox, it was very recalcitrant about paying attention to my targeting commands however, and pretty much just sat there. Anyone seen this? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 The way I'd change both scenarios is to randomize both the forces and the turn the reinforcements come in! It's not any fun anymore knowing what both sides have and when they'll get reinforcements. I mean, what fun is it knowing that you have to storm the town in Last Defense before the Hellcats show up on turn 10, or that you can swing to the right under the hill in Riesburg and completely avoid the 88 stuck on the left. Grr! I need some surprises! Dar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FEBA Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 For Reisberg, I would allow greater freedom for German setup and maybe drop the calibre of the ATGs or replace both with a single Hetzer. As it is now, the placement of one 88 is too predictable, which hurts replayability in terms of FoW. In addition, the german is forced to place one and only one panzerschreck up forward. I say let the german put his stuff "somewhere" on his side of the map. This increases FoW when the game is played the second and subsequent times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TZEENCH Posted November 11, 1999 Share Posted November 11, 1999 I would like to see mabe two small armoured scout collums in a engagement.. mabe a tank or two couple hts and a platoon or 2 of inf, and a couple light stuff (jeeps,Kubelwagons, esc). it would be an intresting to see the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonFox Posted November 11, 1999 Share Posted November 11, 1999 Personally I prefer to play the demo scenarios as a learning experience and try as much as I can to ignore my knowledge of what I am facing. I would like to see the US have a few more zooks in LD even at the expense of some or all of the hellcats to make things really tense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 12, 1999 Share Posted November 12, 1999 Hehe... this is sorta funny to look at. After the final version comes out, and a couple dozen user created scenarios have gone up, you guys will get a chuckle looking back at this thread I am sure. CM's scenarios were intended to be played about 2 times from each side, max. The fact that some people are playing them WELL in excess of that is quite a surprise to us Normally people download a demo, play the missions once or twice, decide if they like it, and stop playing. Who woulda thunk that nearly two weeks later people are still pounding on the demo full bore! Not us Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 12, 1999 Share Posted November 12, 1999 Hell Steve, I've just started two NEW PBEM games.. One in each demo scenario There's gonna be a LOT of AARs coming soon let me tell you ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted November 12, 1999 Share Posted November 12, 1999 BTS QUOTE:"CM's scenarios were intended to be played about 2 times from each side, max. The fact that some people are playing them WELL in excess of that is quite a surprise to us Normally people download a demo, play the missions once or twice, decide if they like it, and stop playing." All I can say is, I have been treating this as MY game. Ever since I downloaded this demo, I have completely neglected EVERY other computer game. I am not exaggerating. I am probably no good at half-life anymore. So when the heck does my pre-order arrive anyway????? hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Peltz Posted November 12, 1999 Share Posted November 12, 1999 I think part of the fun in any scenario, in any game, is having to play with the hand you are dealt. Having said that- a few extra minutes for the Riesburg scenario would be nice, say, 40 instead of 30... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS was 71331 Posted November 12, 1999 Share Posted November 12, 1999 Hey, these are training exercises. I'm playing them repeatedly to become comfortable with your system for controlling "my" troops and vehicles. Perhaps the CM release will have a player training feature, but your two demo scenarios fit the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TZEENCH Posted November 13, 1999 Share Posted November 13, 1999 You guys at BTS must be smoking ckack again, you create this mastering of most of my addictive games in my collection (Steel Panters, Close Combat,Esc) and you think im only going to play twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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