Hilts Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I've got two or three teams crouching down behind a low wall. I want to set up an ambush for enemy troops which I believe are approaching the wall head on. What's the best way to do this? Do I leave the men crouching and put in some covered arcs (in which case I suspect my men will be spotted first and probably eliminated) or is it best to issue them with a hide command with a covered arc? I have used hide commands in the past and have seen my men shot in the back of the head at close range, without returning fire. Or is there a better solution that I don't know about? My troops are all veterans and in CC.....Thanks...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I've got two or three teams crouching down behind a low wall. I want to set up an ambush for enemy troops which I believe are approaching the wall head on. What's the best way to do this? Do I leave the men crouching and put in some covered arcs (in which case I suspect my men will be spotted first and probably eliminated) or is it best to issue them with a hide command with a covered arc? I have used hide commands in the past and have seen my men shot in the back of the head at close range, without returning fire. Or is there a better solution that I don't know about? My troops are all veterans and in CC.....Thanks...... I would go for crouching + cover arcs. Depending on the terrain your guys should spot the enemy first because your guys are stationary and the enemy is moving. If you are playing real time you could also opt for hiding all but one team (with cover arc) to spot and have them all open fire at the same time. This could also work for turn-based but depends on the exact timing and is harder to pull off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I've got two or three teams crouching down behind a low wall. I want to set up an ambush for enemy troops which I believe are approaching the wall head on. What's the best way to do this? Do I leave the men crouching and put in some covered arcs (in which case I suspect my men will be spotted first and probably eliminated) or is it best to issue them with a hide command with a covered arc? I have used hide commands in the past and have seen my men shot in the back of the head at close range, without returning fire. Or is there a better solution that I don't know about? My troops are all veterans and in CC.....Thanks...... Hide is a bad idea, especially behind a wall. They won't, in all likelihood, see the approaching troops until they cross the wall. Slaughter will probably ensue. Covered Arcs are the way to go. Your problem is that walls offer very little in the way of concealment, for troops that are looking over them, so you will get spotted from a way away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theFightingSeabee Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I would use Hide and use one unit to keep eyes on the kill zone. Once they are there, unhide everyone and light them up. Ofcourse, this would be easier in real time mode. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltorrente Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 In the perfect situation, I would open fire with a distant unit while I kept my ambushing units hidden. I would unhide them when I thought the enemy were committed to moving into my ambush zone. Often I just give them cover arcs and don't hide them, because they'll stay hidden most of the time, and will react to a situation I'm not necessarily anticipating. I don't play realtime, so in normal PBEM's, I think you shouldn't hide troops unless you have a good distance to see the enemy and react in the space of one minute. Your opponent could use Quick move to cover 100yards before you can react in one minute, for instance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hide is a bad idea, especially behind a wall. They won't, in all likelihood, see the approaching troops until they cross the wall. Slaughter will probably ensue. Hide is a GREAT idea, ESPECIALLY behind a wall. You are correct that the hiding unit won't see the advancing enemy, but much more important is that the advancing enmy won't see your hiding unit. Use a remote unit as your eyes in overwatch. They'll tell you when to unhide and unleash hell. Slaughter should ensue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Couple the HIDE with a COVERED ARC, preferably 360^, in case some enemy get on your side of the wall. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Couple the HIDE with a COVERED ARC, preferably 360^, in case some enemy get on your side of the wall. Sorry, I don't get the point of giving them a CA if you are going to make it 360°. I do that only when I want to make sure that a particular unit, an FO say, doesn't give itself away by firing their personal weapons. But if you are giving them a Hide command, you've already got that covered. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 The HIDE command will prevent them firing, even if an enemy approaches close. The covered arc will over-ride the HIDE, so that if an enemy suddenly appears over the edge of the wall, your unit will respond appropraiately (i.e., perform a couple of Middle Eastern unloads). The wall itself will prevent the covered arc from coming into action until the enemy is very close, because a unit that is prone behind a wall cannot see beyond it, at all. c3k's inclusion of an arc is a good addition to the wall+HIDE+overwatch combo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SelfLoadingRifle Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 In the real world, a wall on its own would usually be a very poor location from which to set a deliberate ambush due to the probability of being spotted before the ambush was sprung - silhouetted heads and all that sort of thing. However snap ambushes can sometimes be pulled off under less than ideal conditions. Additional cover that masked the ambushers from view until the enemy had entered the killing ground would almost certainly be needed. In depth cover such as undergrowth, hedgerows/bocage, trees and buildings would give far more scope for the ambusher, particularly when added to knowledge of the enemy's likely route of approach. SLR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilts Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 An interesting set of responses....thanks. Just to clarify. I am playing a PBEM game so don't want to give too much away but the wall is more or less in open terrain with not much option to overwatch. The plan was to ambush any scout and or leading teams at short range, eliminate them and withdraw. If I were the opponent I would be checking out this wall. I think I prefer the HIDE option with a covered arc of maybe 30 metres and 360 deg. Can someone confirm though that the HIDE command means that someone is peaking over the wall or are they all face down in the dust and will my men open fire at 30 metres or just keep hiding until the enemy is right at the other side of the wall? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 An interesting set of responses....thanks. Just to clarify. I am playing a PBEM game so don't want to give too much away but the wall is more or less in open terrain with not much option to overwatch. The plan was to ambush any scout and or leading teams at short range, eliminate them and withdraw. If I were the opponent I would be checking out this wall. I think I prefer the HIDE option with a covered arc of maybe 30 metres and 360 deg. Can someone confirm though that the HIDE command means that someone is peaking over the wall or are they all face down in the dust and will my men open fire at 30 metres or just keep hiding until the enemy is right at the other side of the wall? With the Hide option, you have to intervene, or your hiders will keep hiding until they get shot dead (which was why I said it was a bad idea). If you think you'll get the chance to un-hide your troops at short range, go right ahead; JonS is right about that. I'd not expect to get away scot-free though; as soon as you leave the cover of the wall, you'll be easy meat for any distant friends of the ambush victims. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 An interesting set of responses....thanks. Just to clarify. I am playing a PBEM game so don't want to give too much away but the wall is more or less in open terrain with not much option to overwatch. The plan was to ambush any scout and or leading teams at short range, eliminate them and withdraw. If I were the opponent I would be checking out this wall. I think I prefer the HIDE option with a covered arc of maybe 30 metres and 360 deg. Can someone confirm though that the HIDE command means that someone is peaking over the wall or are they all face down in the dust and will my men open fire at 30 metres or just keep hiding until the enemy is right at the other side of the wall? This is from my subjective experience: A hide command behind a wall will leave your guys for all intent and purposes blind. Your guys will not open fire unless they spot an enemy inside their cover arc. Therefore using this option (relying on your guys to automatically open up) will most probably not work. In any case, let us know what option you chose and how it turned out. We can all learn from this . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Can someone confirm though that the HIDE command means that someone is peaking over the wall or are they all face down in the dust and will my men open fire at 30 metres or just keep hiding until the enemy is right at the other side of the wall? Last night I gave a team a hide command and three guys kissed the dirt while one guy remained kneeling. I don't know how typical that is, but thought I would mention it. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Sorry, I don't get the point of giving them a CA if you are going to make it 360°. I do that only when I want to make sure that a particular unit, an FO say, doesn't give itself away by firing their personal weapons. But if you are giving them a Hide command, you've already got that covered. Michael The CA will un-hide the team when the team spots an enemy inside the CA. Otherwise, they will HIDE until they feel their survival is threatened. That's usually AFTER the grenade explodes in their midst... So, HIDE means don't shoot no matter how close the enemy comes...unless your survival is in doubt due to incoming fire. (There may be a range limit at which point there doesn't need to be any incoming fire.) The CA lets them spring the ambush at the desired range. As far as spotting, look at the UI on the lower left of the screen. Most will be hiding, but someone will be spotting. He may hide, then spot again. Or, someone else may spot. Regardless, at some point, someone will be looking. They don't all keep their noses down all the time. The spotting is sporadic. More like peeking. All the above is IMHO, AFAIR, .02, etc. Let us know how it works. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Last night I gave a team a hide command and three guys kissed the dirt while one guy remained kneeling. I don't know how typical that is, but thought I would mention it. Not sure that's reliable. Maybe what CM really needs in addition to the 'Hide' command is the 'Really, Really Hide' command. The latter is what we have now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Last night I gave a team a hide command and three guys kissed the dirt while one guy remained kneeling. I don't know how typical that is, but thought I would mention it. Michael Were they lined up behind a wall? Just wondering because it seems to contradict my experiences. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Not sure that's reliable. Maybe what CM really needs in addition to the 'Hide' command is the 'Really, Really Hide' command. The latter is what we have now. The latter is, indeed, what we have now, because the default behaviour of the troops is to seek cover and concealment relative to the direction they're facing. They already hide, and the "Hide" command means just as you say: "Hide to the detriment of everything else. Really, really hide." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Were they lined up behind a wall? Just wondering because it seems to contradict my experiences. Not behind a wall. I'm certain they were in foxholes. They were paras though and Crack, and that may very well have a bearing on the matter. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 They were paras though and Crack, and that may very well have a bearing on the matter. Not directly. Units on HIDE will stay down but still regularly delegate one of their number to goes heads up and have a look around. What the wall adds is an obstacle thart is high enough that the 'looker' can't see over. He'll still look around (noted as "observing" IIRC in the green text, low left of the main screen) but really all he's observing is the wall two feet in front of his nose. It is the combination of wall+hide+covered_arc+remote_overwatch that makes walls a decent place to ambush from. Miss one of the aspects and the ambush will likely fall apart. Heck, even with all those elements it can all still fall apart As they say; the enemy gets a vote too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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