kirk23 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 NAVAL GAME ALTERED. I have decided for my games anyway, to completely alter all things naval within the game.The reason behind this overhaul, is how the game treats the Battlecruiser. The biggest change is naval warfare is now level 2 at wars start. Battleships are now in this order. Pre-Dreadnoughts = level ( 0 ) Naval warfare. Battlecruisers = level ( 1 ) Naval warfare. Dreadnoughts = level ( 2 ) Naval warfare. Cruisers are now in this order. Protected cruisers = level ( 0 ) Naval warfare. Light cruisers = level ( 1 ) Naval warfare. Armoured cruisers = level ( 2 ) Naval warfare. Here is a breakdown of the most powerful units available to Germany 1/8/1914. Konig class (Dreadnought) Ships lenght = 580 feet. Tonnage = 25,390 Guns = 10 x 12 inch Belt armour = 14 inch Speed = 22 Knots Seydlitz class ( Battlecruiser ) Ships lenght = 656 feet. Tonnage = 24,610 Guns = 10 x 11 inch Belt armour = 11 inch Speed = 27 Knots Deutschland class ( Pre-Dreadnought ) Ships lenght = 400 feet. Tonnage = 13,200 Guns = 4 x 11 inch Belt armour = 9 inch Speed = 18 Knots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 Screenshot shows the new settings for German Battlecruiser Seydlitz,now listed as a Battleship naval warfare level 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 German Armoured cruiser Scharnhorst upgraded to Naval warfare level 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 So I assume that its just me that feels that the naval game is wrong,from my listing at the start of this thread,Pre-Dreadnoughts are at naval warfare level ( 0 ) and yet Battlecruisers are only listed as Cruisers naval warfare level ( 1 ) How can a ship that is twice the size in tonnage,and over 250 feet longer,with more than twice the number of Guns,with a thicker armour belt and 9 knots faster be classed as an improved Cruiser,yet the much weaker ship is a Battleship according to the game,I now remember why I uninstalled this game when I first bought it,I can see it has improved in many areas and is a superb game, but the naval part is wrong I firmly believe that,would someone please address this issue,Battlecruisers of world war 1 were better in every way compared to Pre-Dreadnoughts,and yet this game lists them as improved cruisers,the clue is in their name they were called BATTLE for a reason,and that reason was to scare the Armoured cruisers of the era,they are capital ships please give them the recognition they deserve please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hi There have been some discussions previously on this forum about naval warfare, and various adjustments made on that basis. I don't recall this subject coming up before in the same way, but I've certainly got an open mind to suggestions like this, will definitely think about it, and welcome other contributions too. Thanks Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantona66 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 hellfirejet, you could put it out as a mod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Make it a mod is a good idea, it would be awesome to check this out :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hi There have been some discussions previously on this forum about naval warfare, and various adjustments made on that basis. I don't recall this subject coming up before in the same way, but I've certainly got an open mind to suggestions like this, will definitely think about it, and welcome other contributions too. Thanks Bill Hi Bill, with all the land stuff I'm a fish out of water,but the naval side of things I love,in respect of the alteration I have made using the editor advancing the naval warfare to level ( 2 ) from the start is working great,I have come across a few problems with ship names,I think they must be hard coded in game,IE Lion,Moltke etc there are quite a lot of them really, that I can't change using the editor,when I change the Battlecruisers to level 1 Battleships,their cruiser variants are still in the game,and I have to rename them, that at the moment is the only problem I'm having due to the changes,if something like what I propose at the start of this thread could be implemented in game,it would I think help the naval side of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 hellfirejet, you could put it out as a mod! Yes Cantona66 I think I could it works great,and helps the naval side of the game alot,it not only gives you more scope with the Pre-Dreadnoughts,Battlecruisers & Battleships,but as an added bonus you can now create Protected Cruisers,Light Cruisers & Armoured Cruisers as well and it dosn't stop there you are given even more options with destroyers too! The only teething trouble I have is some ships names appear to be hard coded, and at the present time I can't change these until the game starts,then you rename the ships that need changed,I have said to Bill in the reply prior to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hi Bill, with all the land stuff I'm a fish out of water,but the naval side of things I love[...] It's good to have someone with the mind of an Admiral and not of a General around here. I don't know much about naval warfare, I really go down in it and don't understand sh*t, my deal is land/armor warfare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Make it a mod is a good idea, it would be awesome to check this out :cool: I will release as a mod at a later date,one or two things need sorted this thou,the increase at start to level 2 naval warfare is not the problem,its just that there are some ships hard coded,and they can't be changed or renamed until you start a game,I have said to Bill about this in a previous post,will keep my fingers crossed that somethiing can be done as a patch maybe,and make it an official release,I truely believe it helps the naval game considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 World War 1 most fighting was indeed on land,but as Churchill said Jellicoe was the only man who could loose the war in an afternoon,Britain's navy was vital in WW1,it kept the sea lanes open for trade,and it closed them to Britains enemys.With all the new ships I have in the game now,the naval game is extremely interesting to say the least I'm loving it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hi Hellfirejet No names are hard coded as such, but it isn't possible to rename a ship to have the same name as another. It may be that the name you are trying to use therefore belongs to either a ship that is currently on the map, or to one that is scheduled to arrive in the Production Queue? Some ships, like the Agincourt and Goeben aka Yavuz Sultan Selim are scheduled to arrive by script, so if you do want to change any like that then you'll need to change the UNIT scripts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hi Hellfirejet No names are hard coded as such, but it isn't possible to rename a ship to have the same name as another. It may be that the name you are trying to use therefore belongs to either a ship that is currently on the map, or to one that is scheduled to arrive in the Production Queue? Some ships, like the Agincourt and Goeben aka Yavuz Sultan Selim are scheduled to arrive by script, so if you do want to change any like that then you'll need to change the UNIT scripts. Hi Bill, No the problem is lets say I have listed Lion as a level 1 in the battleships listing,when you load the game Lions cruiser version is still in the game,so I have 2 ships in the game a Battleship version and a cruiser version,this affects a few other ships,I have wiped the lists clean in the editor,but the problem still remains,some ships at present I can't change they lock me out?:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Ok this is very much a work in progress,I have made a link available to anyone who would like to take a closer look at the changes I have made to the naval game. http://www.gamefront.com/files/22383257/WW1+Strategic+Command+Breakthrough+Naval+Enhanced+Mod.zip Britain now has every Pre-Dreadnought,Battlecruiser,Dreadnought that was present during WW1 she also has all 11 A Class Submarines + some other changes. Germany now has every Pre-Dreadnought,Battlecruiser,Dreadnought,Armoured Cruiser also. France has every Pre-Dreadnought and Dreadnought. ( Side note Danton class are Pre-Dreadnoughts althought built and completed long after HMS Dreadnought,the French did not alter their design for the ships,so they were completed to Pre-Dreadnought original design) As I said earlier this is still very much a work in progress but its still playable as is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantona66 Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Have you checked the production queue also and deleted all ships there? I think they remain there even if you delete the names in the build limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Have you checked the production queue also and deleted all ships there? I think they remain there even if you delete the names in the build limits. Yes I'm sure I did that,but then again I have changed quite a bit please take a look for yourself I have made available the scenario in its present state,it is very much playable but a work in progress. FOE ANYONE WHO MISSED THIS I HAVE MADE THE LINK AVAILABLE HERE ENJOY! Ok this is very much a work in progress,I have made a link available to anyone who would like to take a closer look at the changes I have made to the naval game. http://www.gamefront.com/files/22383...hanced+Mod.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 if you want, when you have something more crystal clear, you can upload the mod to the battlefront site. one more thing, I've downloaded your mod, I will PM you with my obs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 if you want, when you have something more crystal clear, you can upload the mod to the battlefront site. one more thing, I've downloaded your mod, I will PM you with my obs Thanks for giving the scenario the once over its far from finished,but it gives a good feel for the changes made,by the way the scenario advances 1 day at a time baby steps you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Hi Hellfirejet No names are hard coded as such, but it isn't possible to rename a ship to have the same name as another. It may be that the name you are trying to use therefore belongs to either a ship that is currently on the map, or to one that is scheduled to arrive in the Production Queue? Some ships, like the Agincourt and Goeben aka Yavuz Sultan Selim are scheduled to arrive by script, so if you do want to change any like that then you'll need to change the UNIT scripts. Hi Bill, Yip I have changed Agincourt and Goeben also Germanys over seas Armoured cruisers Scharnhorst & Gneisenau,stupid question but what do I change in the UNIT scripts,editors I can play with altering AI stuff and scripts gives me the heebie jeebies Ok quick up date I took a look in the UNIT scripts,is it safe to just delete the whole section that applies to the ship involved or event for that matter,I don't want to break anything vital ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 Hi There have been some discussions previously on this forum about naval warfare, and various adjustments made on that basis. I don't recall this subject coming up before in the same way, but I've certainly got an open mind to suggestions like this, will definitely think about it, and welcome other contributions too. Thanks Bill Well Bill, heres a couple of small contributions to start with. 1 = Pre-Dreadnoughts,Battlecruisers & Dreadnoughts are far to easily sunk. 2 = In game terms Armoured cruisers,Light cruisers & destroyers,can successfully seriously damage or even sink Dreadnoughts or Battlecruisers far too easily. ( NOT HISTORICAL ) But here is Historical action or lack of action chase of the German Battlecruiser Goeben. Admiral Troubridge was instructed 'not to get seriously engaged with superior forces',Troubridges squadron comprised the armoured cruisers Defence,Black Prince,Warrior & Duke of Edinburgh.The 4 Armoured cruisers had 9.2 in guns versus the 11 in guns of Goeben, and had armour a maximum of 6 in thick, compared to the battlecruisers 11 in armour belt. This meant that Troubridges squadron was not only outranged and vulnerable to Goebens powerful guns, but it was unlikely his cruisers guns could seriously damage the German ship at all even at short range. In addition, the British ships were several knots slower than Goeben, meaning that she could dictate the range of the battle. Consequently Troubridge after some deliberation he signalled Admiral Milne with his intentions to break off the chase, mindful of Churchills order to avoid engaging a "superior force". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share Posted October 5, 2012 Ok this is very much a work in progress,I have made a link available to anyone who would like to take a closer look at the changes I have made to the naval game. http://www.gamefront.com/files/22383...hanced+Mod.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maskirovka Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 This sounds very interesting, I look forward to checking it out hellfirejet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 The scenario is far from the finished article but it does show how the different ship types work,I'm increasing the costs for any upgraded,plus still to tweak the amount of strenght loss in combat battles.The biggest problem I have with the game is how easy it is to destroy Battleships,I mean in the basic game they drop like flies,its like playing ten pin bowling,I'm naval minded but I don't see the point of building Battleships, for the outlay in resources and build time they are not worth the return you get its not historical but abstract fantasy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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