Artillery defensive fire bug? and a few more things (for Bill and everyone else)

[lettowvorbeck]

I have a couple issues I'd like to raise about artillery on the defense:

1. The manual implies that, as long as you have the shells for it and the arty unit is not in silent mode, that each attacker within its range will get hit by defensive fire. But this is clearly not the case, as I see frequently see opposing attacking corps not get fired upon when i have plenty of shells to do so. What exactly is the % chance for arty to fire in the defense?

2. Since artillery was the king of the battlefield, shouldn't it also do more damage to attackers? It seems that even with Level 1, the most typical result of defensive artillery fire is 'no loss'. At worst, the attacker gets a 1 or 2 step loss. None of this is enough of a deterrent, IMO. What do you guys think? A nearby HA unit should be a major hurdle to cross, and it just isn't.

3. Counterbattery fire was an important consideration in trench warfare, but, since no one is foolish enough to put their precious HA units on the front line in order to reach an enemy HA unit 2 tiles away, it is now absent from the game. That said I am enormously glad that the range of Level 2 HA was reduced by 1 in an earlier patch, as it created ridiculously ahistorical offensive punch that could be sustained over huge areas. The only thing I regret about it is the loss of counterbattery fire. I remember a pbem game where I had an offensive prepared and right as I began to soften up the defenses, the counterbattery fire made it too expensive to continue and i had to call off the attack. IMO, we need to have this back in the game to make HA-backed offensive success less inevitable. Can something be done to put it back in the game, without reinstating the extra range for all purposes?

[Hubert Cater]

I can answer the first one in that unless there is a bug the Artillery should be firing back... can you confirm that the attacking unit was in range of the defensive Artillery?

The only other thing I can think of is that I believe Artillery need a strength >= 5 in order to return fire.

[lettowvorbeck]

Hi Hubert,

Yes, the attacker is two tiles away and the HA strength is >= 5 and the defending arty does not always fire. I think it definitely merits a going over.

A v1.04 example that immediately comes to mind from a recent pbem game...I had a 10 strength Level 2 HA adjacent to a friendly unit (with plenty of ammo and not in silent mode, of course). An enemy corps attacked the friendly unit, and swapped out with another behind it which also attacked. Neither was subjected to defensive arty fire!

[Hubert Cater]

Can you send me a saved turn where I can repeat this?

[Hubert Cater]

Send to support@furysoftware.com

[lettowvorbeck]

Hubert,

Those savegame files are long gone, but I am going to try to get the opponent password from a newly terminated game and see if I can recreate the problem. When i find it, i'll send you the file.

[Ivanov]

2. Since artillery was the king of the battlefield, shouldn't it also do more damage to attackers? It seems that even with Level 1, the most typical result of defensive artillery fire is 'no loss'. At worst, the attacker gets a 1 or 2 step loss. None of this is enough of a deterrent, IMO. What do you guys think? A nearby HA unit should be a major hurdle to cross, and it just isn't.

I actually like that. Even if the arty fire does't cause any direct strenght loss, it does affect the morale and readiness, so the player can bring in the infantry units can finish the job. It would be unrealistic if the arty alone could totally obliterate a corps size unit.

I also think, that the tac air units in the WWII scenarios, should have a simmilar effect on the enemy - cause less direct casualties and have more effect on the morale and readiness.

3. Counterbattery fire was an important consideration in trench warfare, but, since no one is foolish enough to put their precious HA units on the front line in order to reach an enemy HA unit 2 tiles away, it is now absent from the game. That said I am enormously glad that the range of Level 2 HA was reduced by 1 in an earlier patch, as it created ridiculously ahistorical offensive punch that could be sustained over huge areas. The only thing I regret about it is the loss of counterbattery fire. I remember a pbem game where I had an offensive prepared and right as I began to soften up the defenses, the counterbattery fire made it too expensive to continue and i had to call off the attack. IMO, we need to have this back in the game to make HA-backed offensive success less inevitable. Can something be done to put it back in the game, without reinstating the extra range for all purposes?

I found the counterbattery fire pretty handy in the smaller scenarios ( Gallipoli, Kaiserschlacht ) that I played during the tournament. In bigger campaigns I had routinely see it happened only in the Middle East.

[Kommandant]

I actually like that. Even if the arty fire does't cause any direct strenght loss, it does affect the morale and readiness, so the player can bring in the infantry units can finish the job. It would be unrealistic if the arty alone could totally obliterate a corps size unit.

I agree with Ivanov, most of my units, and enemy unit, atk, but get hit by arty, even with no str loss, the atk is much less eficient, from a prediction of 2/3 damage, I get a 3/3 or 3/2, when I get a str loss, even if it's only one point, the atk can become 4/2, which is devastating.

[lettowvorbeck]

Hmm. that hasn't been my experience. I should also mention that no one is suggesting that artillery should "totally obliterate" an attacking unit.

[Iron Ranger]

I've seen str 12 arty with HQ support absoulty destroy an offensive due to defensive fire. However I wounder how much does the terain that the attacking unit sits on effects the results.

[Kommandant]

I've seen str 12 arty with HQ support absoulty destroy an offensive due to defensive fire. However I wounder how much does the terain that the attacking unit sits on effects the results.

Possibly HQ support makes the defensive fire better, I never tryed it out, the terrain makes a diference, mainly if the unit is in trench or not, if not, it's deals lot's of pain.