Unbeatable Game?

[duckEfuzz]

Just wondering how you would counter a very gamey but nevertheless legal German force consisting of elite/fanatic/+2 leadership grenadiers, an elite/fanatic/+2 leadership Tiger, all played on small/medium meeting engagement maps, with medium/small points.

I ask because before i draw/lose many more times it would be good to know that this type uber pixeltruppen really cannot be stopped effectively.

The only way so far that i can think of is to send my own genetically modified elite/fanatic/+2L cyborgs to counter this enemy threat, and to be honest my hands are refusing to press the OK button due to the fact that my DNA doesnt included the Gamey gene....gutted!

What would you do?

[~Viajero]

Ive had my hopeless ammie pixeltruppen neutralizing Tigers with rifle grenades from the side...

On an very open map, it coud be very difficult to get that Tiger, agreed. This games are to be avoided unless they are Nabla based or similar, or you have other type of advantage.

But if the map is very hillie/woodie or urban then its a different story. As for the grenadiers, that is much more feasible, depends on positioning, approach, map etc.

Here I quote a post from JasonC regarding how to address an enemy force with superior armour:

...As for how to attack against superior armor, obviously it is the most difficult of all tactical combined arms tasks. And the attempt presupposes you have offsetting advantages in other arms, along with numbers. If the odds are only even and the enemy has superior tanks, you have no business attacking them. So I will assume you do have odds, including in the artillery and infantry categories, as well as more total AFVs, just less capable ones.

And the main method there is to lean on the soft firepower, first and foremost. That means you intend to destroy the defense by killing its infantry, not its tanks. Instead of "drawing trump" by first engaging tank to tank or trying to locate and destroy the enemy AT network, and then leaning on armor for fire support, you reverse that relationship. The soft firepower attack is the main thing, and the threats it creates want to expose the enemy armor on favorable terms.

This means artillery barrages lead, again. It means your own tanks keyhole to isolate on only forward positions of the defense, infantry outposts, which they hit with HE. The idea is to give the defenders no shots at your armor from his tanks, unless he moves his tanks to hunt yours. Your tanks should not move to any location your infantry hasn't passed over, to see what enemy vehicles are visible from that specific spot. Your infantry attack should be wave like rather than a concentrated fist, probing for weakness and grabbing terrain the enemy doesn't occupy strongly. Nibble a way in with keyholed firesupport plus these probes.

The idea is to present the following dilemma to the defense - either let the infantry battle be lost, or escalate and intervene in that battle by moving the defending tanks to get LOS to the attacking infantry.

Now your infantry threats are "bait", and your TDs, bazookas, and lesser AT weapons are the hunters. Everything but the TDs needs to cross fire with another weapon - a zook close from the northeast and a 75mm Sherman far from the northwest, for example. The idea is to force the Panther to face one or the other, and bag it with the one is doesn't choose. Naturally, the less he knows about where such threats are, the more likely you are to bag something, which means tanks are conceal whenever possible, and zooks are advancing slowly inside cover, behind a screen of the squad infantry.

It is a positional battle. You don't try to razzle dazzle your way in. Let him do all the razzling, you focus on safe moves, moves by modest infantry elements covered by AT threats. Do not rush. If he stays in his lair keyholes with nice covered flanks, stay in the LOS shadows created by his lair and leave him alone there. He is irrelevant unless he comes out.

See the idea?...

[duckEfuzz]

Quick reply, thx viajero.

I'm using reg inf/armoured inf company strength, with either 76mm sherman/arty/76mm guns.

Because the maps are fairly small then relatively limited to maneuver.

I was wondering about pure inf 2x company, waste 1 in the first contact and use second to mop up.

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Ach so. Zey sink zey are ze II SS Panzer Korps Summer 1943 :-)

Maybe Hitler Jugund late in the campaign. Maybe not entirely unrealistic. However they will be expensive in points. You could buy lots of ground units and/or air support which could knock out his Tiger. Not a gamey situation at all since that was the kind of thing that actualy happened. Consider for example the variety of claims for who killed Wittmann. If you can immobilize the Tiger it becomes more vulnerable. It will take a lot for the crew to abandon it but, if it is immobilized it is a bit easier tro hit it effectively from the air. You could even buy naval gunfire support. Really heavy naval guns would not do a Tiger much good and kills Panzer Grenadiers as well.

Your opponent might not like you for it of course! But then he started it!

[Sgt Schultz]

+1 to all above.

Here is a ramble of things I can think of to help...

If it is a medium battle then you can easily buy enough mortar/arty to teach your opponent that Elites die just as fast as Regular under a barrage.

Buy 81mm batteries and TRPs. Place TRPs in an arc around the projected target area, with approx 200+ meters between adjacent TRPs.

I tend to use 4 in an arc, bowed toward my forces, with a center TRP. This allows a web of linear missions that is bound to suit your tactical needs. like this...

* * *

* *

Once troops are taken care of, use organic smoke mission from the batteries to screen approaching AT assets, be they tanks or zooks.

Buy Vet mortar/FOs, and use REG/High/0 for the masses. Make only company and platoon leaders +1.

Vet/High/+1 for armor.

Use a medium buy on a Large map. This gives you more room to get around the Kitty for a flank shot.

Do not underestimate the 'soft kill' ability of the 105mm Sherman. It may not kill a Tiger but it will batter its optics and other equipment, while maintaining the best anti-infantry capability of any Ami tank.

Buy three tanks if possible. One for each flank and one to sit back and exploit opportunities.

Find a support platoon HQ in purchase screen that you can/will detach from its unit during a battle(HMG/mortar/etc). Buy Vet/Crack zook teams and snipers attached directly to that HQ. Send them out as a unit to hunt armor in a slow methodical fashion that gets them max stealth. Even if the enemy armor has its way for a while, eventually you will get the kill.

Keep units that still have Pop Smoke near the front to counter early armor attacks.

Judge wind direction and strength to plan smoke use for close assaults on armor.

I have found wind direction and strength to be a more important factor against German armor than anything else. If you have a light crossing wind then you can have your way with them. Strong winds in your face or at your back means you have to maneuver to get a crossing wind, and then have to RUN before the screen is in tatters.

[nik mond]

I had a Tiger knocked out by a side shot from an M8. I moved the Tiger threw a built up area. Notice lower left the crew action is exiting. The second I saw this happen I hit the pause and snapped a pic. So in terms of armor spalling a regular panzer crew even in a Tiger will bail. If they were +2 Elite tho......probably the M8 would be toast.

[duckEfuzz]

Another aspect is that a lot of the maps contain buildings which are negating a good portion of the arty, oh and were playing strict rarity.

With respects air power, there was one happy game where a mustang made short work of said elite troops, maybe thats the way.

[DLaurier]

I wanna play this map.

Theres no such thing as "unbeatable"

[duckEfuzz]

its not any particular map, just a force pick from hell!

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Buy lots of AT guns and minefields. Deploy them on the axis of attack or to channel him into an AT kill zone where you can set up an L or U shaped AT ambush. Whatever way he turns you get flank shots with a better chance of ?Tiger killing particularly at close range.