Seeking advice on scenario victory conditions

[Broadsword56]

Now that the Commonwealth module is getting closer, I'm re-launching a discussion I posted a few months back -- it's about a scenario idea and the best ways to set victory conditions for it. The victory conditions would be complex, and that's the main thing holding me back. I'm not sure whether good ones can be made for this situation within the limits of CMBN:

"During the Dieppe raid, radar technician Flight Sergeant Jack Nissenthal was assigned to a top-secret mission to learn about Freya [A German radar station on the coast]. Members of the South Saskatchewan Regiment escorted Nissenthal on the raid. Because his extensive knowledge of radar systems could be a significant asset to the enemy, the Regiment was [secretly] ordered to kill him rather than allow him to be captured. Nissenthal and his escorts landed near the town of Pourville and made their way to their intended target, the radar station at Caude-Côté. Unable to penetrate the heavily fortified station, Nissenthal did the next best thing and cut its phone lines to the German forces. The German personnel at the radar station were forced to use radio communication during the battle. R.A.F. listeners in England monitored this radio traffic and learned a great deal about Freya's capabilities. The Allied armies thus gained a vital tactical advantage, the ability to jam German radar. Countless allied airmen owe their lives to the Dieppe raid. Nissenthal and at least some of the South Saskatchewan Regiment returned safely to England. Others were not so fortunate and were among the many killed or captured at Dieppe."

[The raid on the radar station is described in thrilling detail in the book, "Green Beach," by James Leasor. ]

I'm thinking this could be a challenging and fun CMBN scenario. But how to set up some good victory conditions for a situation like this?

Idea #1 -- Make Jack Nissenthall a one-man unit, U1 (are there any units in the game that can be reduced in strength to be a single guy)?

Idea #2 -- Make the radar hut a "touch objective" for the Allied side. Ground rule for the scenario is that only Nissenthall is allowed to touch it (since the game won't let us set touch points for only one unit) Set the points for it so high that the Allied player can't win unless Nissenthall touches the radar hut.

Idea #3 -- But give the German player a "destroy unit" objective on Nissenthall, so that the Germans automatically win if Nissenthall is killed or captured.

Idea #4 -- In real life, if things started going badly, the Allied troops had to decide whether to keep pressing on to the radar hut, or to kill Nissenthall themselves if he seemed about to be captured. In CMBN, if the Canadians kill Nissenthall themselves the Germans would get the points! So that won't work. Any other thoughts on how to deal with this Allied "bailout" contingency?

Idea #5 -- Even if Nissenthall achieves the objective, he and his escorts still have to fight their way back to the extraction point back at the beach. The beach would be an exit objective, and the German side would gain points for Allied units that fail to exit.

There's a lot of suspense in the predawn beach landing, trying not to arouse the sleeping Germans, trying to protect Nissenthall so he can reach the radar hut under fire, and the race to complete the mission before a reinforcing German panzer detachment arrives from inland.

Does this sound like fun?

[z1812]

Sounds like a lot of fun to me.

[Pak40]

#1 - yes, you can take an HQ unit, then reduce it to 10% for example. It should be down to 1 man at that point.

#2 - Yes, that's probably your best option although it's rather easy to touch the objective and then run away. Another rout to take is to make the hut a destroy objective. I'm assuming that they were ordered to destroy the hut once Niessenthall learned all he could about it. The time it takes to destroy the hut can simulate Niessenthall's "learning" of the system. I've never used a destroy objective, so I'm not sure how/if this will work on a building. You'll have to make sure all the allied units have demo charges.

Also, make a secondary 'touch' objective to simulate the cutting of the wire. This will give some bonus points to the allies. They have telephone pole flavor objects that can be used.

#3 - probably not a good idea because the Germans didn't know anything about Nissenthall. You could, however, make it a hidden objective for the Germans that gives them some bonus points.

#4 - I don't think you'll have to worry about Nissenthall getting captured, especially if you give him high morale/motivation, he'll probably fight to the death.

#5 - As I see it, you have 4 possible outcomes:

1)Total failure - Allies fail to capture hut, fail to cut telephone wire, Nissenthall is killed.

2)Failure - Allies fail to capture hut, fail to cut telephone wire OR Nissenthall is killed.

3)Moderate success - Allies capture hut, Nissenthall is killed or does not make the exit.

4)Total Success - all objectives are completed and Nissenthall is exited.

Also, to make case 3 plausible you might have to award exit points to the other allied units. (at least one unit must exit to bring back valuable info learned)

[Broadsword56]

Great suggestions!

Since the Dieppe raid (of which Pourville was a part) was a costly disaster, that's a given and it would be unrealistic to change that aspect. So I wouldn't require too many Allied units to successfully exit -- it would be more the nature of a bonus if the Allies can actually evacuate a few at the end of the mission, since it will be very hard to return to that beach and survive there. What's nice about the Nissenthall mission is that it gives a way for an Allied player to have a small scenario victory in the middle of what was a lost cause, overall.

I also think it would be fun to have a scenario where the tactics are so different from the usual "find 'em, fix 'em, flank 'em." If done correctly, it would be highly suspenseful from start to finish.

The Leasor book has a good scale map, too. So I'm feeling inspired. Unfortunately, I'm more of a mapper and I have no idea how to go about coding the German AI. I may need a collaborator to see this one through.

Any more ideas? Let's hear from some of you Canadians out there!

[Pak40]

Yes, this sounds like a really fun mission.

Honestly, the German AI probably wont be too difficult. Since they are on the defensive I'm assuming they will be static. However, you could certainly have different setup plans so that there is some variation when a person replays the scenario.

If you design it to be played as the Germans, then you're in for a much more difficult task to make the Allied AI plans.

I recommend you just focus on humans playing the allied side. It's very hard to balance a scenario that can be played from both sides.

[Broadsword56]

Yes, Human (Allied) vs. AI was my plan. Or HTH.

The German panzer reinforcements would have a wide variable in their arrival time, so that would add more uncertainty to the mix.

How do you simulate "sleeping" defender units in CMBN? Just set the AI to activate and move them gradually at staggered times?

[Mord]

Yes, Human (Allied) vs. AI was my plan. Or HTH.

The German panzer reinforcements would have a wide variable in their arrival time, so that would add more uncertainty to the mix.

How do you simulate "sleeping" defender units in CMBN? Just set the AI to activate and move them gradually at staggered times?

That sounds about right...probably the same way you'd simulate a parachute drop...stagger and trickle them in.

The scenario idea sounds interesting btw and is a good example of using the editor to it's fullest potential...kinda reminds me of that one mission in CMSF where you had to call in air strikes on the insurgent warlord and his guys. Good luck.

Mord.

[Pak40]

Yes, Human (Allied) vs. AI was my plan. Or HTH.

The German panzer reinforcements would have a wide variable in their arrival time, so that would add more uncertainty to the mix.

How do you simulate "sleeping" defender units in CMBN? Just set the AI to activate and move them gradually at staggered times?

Reinforcements have two time settings. The first is to set the amount of time into the battle that they arrive. The second setting is whether they arrive on time or if you want a window of time to give variation. You set at +/- arrival time (5 min increments).

You'll still have to set the AI plan for the reinforcements, otherwise they will just sit there when they enter the battle. Remember to set the times for the movement orders. Also, make sure that these settings allow for the reinforcement arrival window. You will have to experiment and test this to make sure things work the way you want them to.

[A Canadian Cat]

Broadsword56, sounds like an interesting scenario.

#1 - yes, you can take an HQ unit, then reduce it to 10% for example. It should be down to 1 man at that point.<snip>

I would suggest not using an HQ unit - given how the FOW works in the game HQ units stand out too much. How about if you include scout teams in your force mix and have one of them with a reduced % so it only has one man, then use that for Nissenthal. That way when playing H2H, multiple times, people who know the scenario will still not really be sure which unit is the important one.