TheForwardObserver

@TJT Scouring the forum for keywords related to future upgrades and following the christmas bones thread don't quite satisfy my thirst for espionage in the way that bribery might. We need actionable intelligence; formation sizes, units, round counts, favorite colors, college majors, what jobs the pixeltruppen had before the war.

If our 'highly encrypted' short range networks are vulnerable to counter measures and jamming, I suspect Ukrainian networks also remain vulnerable. Jamming is a particularly attractive method of degrading an enemy without exposure, like artillery, and use of this equipment is arranged by non-lethal effects cells, typically any type of 'electronic fires' will be coordinated with lethal effects cells to achieve maximum effect and efficiency-- A general Ukrainian familiarity with Russian tactics has probably been important in mitigating the effects of degraded communications, along with native communications infrastructure already intact. I'm not familiar with the device or software the Ukrainians are using as their 'forward entry devices' or PDAs but I'd imagine they can be operated as independent un-networked devices that can be manually inputted or plugged into a laser range finder and GPS to generate the information needed for fire missions. Standalone it would be least vulnerable to the effects of EW. Likely the device will also be capable of being plugged into an encrypted radio, whereby that data can be transferred via frequency hopping encrypted channels to recipient devices on the network. The length of the whole process, under non-degraded conditions, and every military has standards for every aspect of this, can be as quick as it takes you to do the following; Look at your target: Raise your laser rangefinder (viper vector laser rangefinder is a good example of a typical device in this instance): Point rangefinder at target: Click the direction and distance buttons: The direction and distance to the target appears, this information is sent to the PDA, where it is combined with your location (either inputted manually beforehand or connected to a GPS), and a fire mission is generated and either sent over the radio, if connected, just as quickly as you can send a text message, or if preferrable the mission data generated in the PDA is relayed over a voice network, either wire or radio. The length of time required to respond can be affected by several things: Have you been in direct communication with the firing unit? Is the target location affected by any existing Fire Support Coordination measures; such as Free Fire Area, Restricted Fire area, No-Fire Area. Are the guns set up and manned? Are they loaded? What kind of guns do they have? How far away are the guns? How complex is the request for fire? At it's fastest your rounds are on their way 15 seconds after you've sent your mission, at it's longest many minutes. The *shortest *path here is you've been in direct contact with the battery, the battery is near, the effects required are basic, the receiving unit doesn't modify your request and the target area is an FFA with no restrictions or clearance of fires issues. At this point you have only to wait on the gun crew's loading and adjustments to their guns if needed and time of flight of the rounds. Time of flight can be seconds with low angle fire and minutes with high angle. I don't know what standards Ukr or Russian gun crews train to, nor do I know what speeds their guns are capable of achieving, but once again I would expect dozens of seconds for some guns and crews and minutes for others. I know you want hard numbers but the best way to judge this for yourself is by watching youtube videos of russian and ukrainian gun crews from the moment they receive the request to the moment they fire, as I'd imagine their published standards diverge a bit from actual capabilities.

@Haiduk That is certainly the case. And certainly is the case in most wars where a degree of parity exists between the maneuever forces on both sides. Cursory examinations of casualties in wars fought between proper armies, throughout the 20th century supports this. From my vantage point, the King of Battle has been away from his thrown for a few decades, and has returned to find his kingdom in need of repairing. Sorry, also, to approach the conflict in an impersonal way, and I mean this to the Ukrainians and the Russians. I am very familiar with how it feels to be *subjected* to the often well thought out and researched opinions of those who "weren't there" of course I've also found outside analysis absolutely critical-- and I know that seeing your buddies cast as numbers and events can feel very personal- I will say sinfully that it's a relief criticising someone else's war for once.

I look forward to whatever they release. How do people find out some of these possible secret details, is there a BF mole I should be bribing? Of course it would be awesome to hear some scuttlebutt about what's in the pipleine. In the meantime I'm rediscovering the fun of the WW2 titles.

I'm keen on the *acknowledgement* that Russian artillery and armor in East Ukraine were absolutely devastating, and every subject and event mentioned in the article can be researched by OSint. Most of these events have been mentioned here, but ususally in a reflexively critical manner. Notable also was the use of UAVs and EW. I'd return Crimea and the Donbass to Ukraine tomorrow if it were my call, but politics aside, I have been thoroughly impressed with what I've seen from the Russian army.

“In a 3-minute period…a Russian fire strike wiped out two mechanized battalions [with] a combination of top-attack munitions and thermobaric warheads” http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2016/05/how-pentagon-preparing-tank-war-russia/128460/?oref=d-dontmiss Saw this and I reckoned ya'll might find it worth reading.

"I'm sorry, we must have made a mistake, Right 150 Please, over" "No, no-- our sincerest apologies for not hitting it the first time! Rest of the day all rounds will be two for the price of one!"

Broad brushstrokes Sublime. And did these Marines suggest shooting children for stealing gas? They may have some different opinions about the nature of counter insurgency warfare than what you'd find being taught in a classroom at Sandhurst, or really anywhere in the civilized world. Beyond that their criticism sounds no more remarkable than what is said by every unit about the units they replace. It's a right to blame the unit that came before you but that doesn't mean it's right.

So true. "Hello Battery, this is B Co, Sorry to bother you, Please Adjust Fire, thank you, over"

@Jammersix You must have been proud watching him deliver that whoopin in '91.

@kinophile There's probably some truth there. The British Army always punch above their weight, and very professional across the board, I actually wish the US Army resembled it a bit more-- but like all older British institutions smacks of an organization a little too affected by the singularity and conjured theatrics of that ole Eatonian Oxbridge pipeline. Only my opinion of course.

@kinophile My first proper encounter with a British Officer was at a place called Mike's in Tel Aviv. He was in drag. I thought he was unusual. Moved to London for a spell after that and over the course of time I learned he was very much so a typical British Officer.

The sharpest field artillery officers I've met have always been Canadian and I can't for the life of me figure out what it is they're doing up there.

John, It's a mightily imperfect beast, suitable for my consumption only. The abundant radios were a side effect of my inability to get umbrellas into the game.

And one more, both from Black Sea, but this one with the FI background because it looks a bit more Falklandsy than the Ukraine environment.

Falklands mod is coming along. What a righteous learning experience

Vladimir, I'm not here to participate in any discussions of east vs west, I was just correcting the record. Counter battery radar gives you the POO and POI, the point of origin and the point of impact. It can't stop the enemy from inititating fires on you, and I would imagine even Russian forces in Syria have rules of engagement for initiating counter battery fires. If the enemy sets up their tubes or rockets in a location that cannot be engaged without incurring an unnacceptable risk of collateral damage, or civilian casualties, it likely will not be fired, or minimally, the response time will be slowed by a lengthened clearance of fires process. It is quite normal for insurgent weapons teams to attack large targets, bases, airfields etc, and quite normal for them to escape counter battery fire.

I'm not sure how Stratfor (debka of the west) was able to develop any type of authoritative analysis from this photo alone, so I assume they are either filling in the blanks themselves or have multiple sources. That being said, precision munitions and precision targeting equipment wouldn't be needed to achieve those types of effects. We've lost aircraft in Afghanistan on the ground in the same way as is being suggested happened here.

More certainty that you'll hit your stationary grid, and the potential for increased range under certain circumstances. If you're lasing targets with a laser designator, right now, typically you're doing so for munitions summoned from the various winged beasts of the heavens. John, If it's needed someone will get around to it, after they've exhausted all other options.

Excalibur's flight is guided by GPS, but there is no terminal guidance, so no actual lasing is required. If the grid you submit is bad, your Excalibur round will land on that bad grid. Future iterations of Excalibur will incorporate laser guidance.

@Jammersix Correct, you read me lima charlie. As it stands, in-game, the request for precision munitions, and to some extent the emergency barrage both would *also* qualify as FFEs, as they require no spotting rounds. Though, I think the emergency barrage more closely captures the spirit of what would be called an Immediate Suppression, which is an urgent fire mission request whereby the guns immediately fire at the requested location with whatever ammunition is on hand, in whatever manner and sheaf is fastest for each gun. If WP is loaded, WP is what is fired-- goal being immediate suppression, not destruction, or harassment or neutralization. @John Kettler First round FFE is Fire for Effect on the correct grid, achieving desired effects, with no spotting rounds. This is what you see with Excalibur munitions in game. The irony being the target grid must be correct in order for Excalibur to achieve effects, as it does not use terminal guidance or laser guidance. A good grid for Excal should be good for unguided. As for an Observer requesting FFE following the the adjustment of fire; all systems have different minimum deviation (left and right) and range corrections that they will perform for specific missions, and depending on the desired effects in the target area, sheaf, etc, FFE can be fired at various times. As a standard, in artillery, an Observer will request FFE when he no longer needs to deviate greater than 35 meters left or right or drop/add ranges less than 50 meters. IE typical minimum corrections would be Right 35, and Drop 50. However these can be waived if a greater level of effect is desired, or when registering guns for precision fire.

But your officers and FO probably did. You may have unwittingly contributed to the creation of local TRPs. If the details of these TRPs were then shared with supporting elements, you may have affected the TRPs of other units-- Your officers and other leadership may have in fact conspired to create battle graphics behind your backs, perhaps even using these graphics to coordinate their plans amongst themselves and with fellow conspirators-- they may have even used the locations of your own positions, reported by you so innocently, as TRPs and not told you-- only to be used of course in the event that you've pulled back or been overrun... but then again, of course that's what they'd say!

@Jammersix Now you bring up a good point, and it is one of language. One of the reasons this topic is difficult to negotiate, is language. Talking about lots of different things and the only common denominator is that everyone is aware of what a TRP in game does. The range cards you used when the dinosaurs roamed, did they resemble this one, with TRPs marked?

@Jammersix Now who is undermining the infantry! I will give you that I may have painted a picture of Pvt Snuffy as an above average output soldier, but Pretend for a moment that Private Snuffy has been renamed Strategic Corporal, and is serving in a modern army in the age of GPS, instant messaging, rugged tablets, prolific laser range finders that provide distance and azimuth, and operating in a world that has been well mapped and fought over for centuries, maybe longer.