wee

Peeling potatoes is a supreme way to occupy a soldier. Everyone knows that a soldier with free time is a disaster waiting to happen. 

The problem with the claims of full units of the Russian military fighting openly in Ukraine comes down to the units that have been said to be fighting. By the very nature of the conflict Russian leadership would never commit regular contractors to fight in a clandestine war they want to have deniability about. I was a contractor for 6 years in a motorized infantry unit. We don't have any code of secrecy indoctrinated into us. We talk. A lot. Russians as a society is very guarded with secrets and the rank and file are not trusted. Regular army brigades are not going to be committed to a clandestine war. It just goes against the Russian soul.

Now, I am not an idiot - I'm convinced there was aid given by the military - training, planning, equipment, intelligence, probably leadership at the unit level. I have no doubt that men were probably granted leave to go to Ukraine and fight - though I also don't doubt that they were indeed volunteers. I don't doubt that artillery was fired into Ukraine - it was part of the mutual provocations on the border (the captured VDV guys were part of this) There were patrols by both sides beng done on both sides of the border and both Ukraine and Russia fired artillery (several incidents of Russian soldiers killed in Russia by Ukrainian artillery were ignored by BBC and the like).

My educated opinion:

Was the uprising in Donbass orchestrated by Russia - No, but inspired by Russian actions.

Were/are the Rebels controlled by Moscow? Um murky, but yes-no. Too many loosely aligned factions. Some were proxies, some were 'legitimate' rebels, some were volunteers from abroad inspired by the cause. The initial senior leadership was not. The current more than likely is.

Were/are the Rebels supplied with arms, equipment including tanks and IFVs, intelligence, leadership etc. by the Russian government? Yes.

Were/are the Rebels also funded, armed, and supplied by normal citizens of the Russian Federation? Yes.

Did Russian soldiers fight in Ukraine? Yes.

Did entire units of regular soldiers fight in Ukraine? No.

Did rebels train in Russia with the blessing of the government? Yes.

Were rebels trained in Russia by a cadre made up of active duty Russian soldiers? I can't say, but more than likely yes.

Did rebels stage out of Russia for their August counter-offensive? More than likely, though not certain if they started the march from inside Russia.

Was the counter offensive planned by Russian leadership? More than likely completely planned.


I've come to these conclusions based on my personal experience and reading countless reports from many different sources and watching hours up on hours of video in the original language. I'm not saying I'm 100% right, just my feeling about it all.

Video link is wrong John - takes me to some footage of a drunk Russian dude...

And in Scotland "wee" can mean "small" or "little" - although in context, it often isn't eg. I'll just have a wee glass of whiskey 

I sailed around on a boat for awhile. That was fun.
I went somehwere hot for awhile. That wasn't fun.

Your nickname made me smile. In Australia, it is a way of saying "piss".

I live in Russia and am not what some one would call a supporter of the Russian government, and completely disagree with the annexation of Crimea- (it has nearly destroyed the Russian domestic tourism industry with the government trying to pressure companies to convince people to visit Crimea, it lead to the bankruptcy of several long standing tour companies.) As well as many other economic hardships that aren't even connected to the diplomatic spats over sanctions I must tell you - Yelena Vasilyeva is an awful, awful source to use, as well as censor.net.ua.

It seems that you are using sources that are definitely skewed one way that are not fully trustworthy (which is typical on all sides) It is the same as reading a report from Motorola that his unit destroyed 20 enemy tanks in 15 minutes (a common report) and taking it as the truth.

I could list plenty of stuff from the other point of view (with the same level of reputation of the sources you posted) that are going to say completely different things. I guess it boils down to this, if you are convinced of a certain narrative - you are going to believe those sources.

Edit: As a side, Steve since you are an administrator, could you tell me why to access any BF page no matter where I am trying to access it from I must use VPN software and change my IP to outside of Russia?

The rest of the world would back the west. Russia would be facing the rest of the world alone.


like the Iraq invasion and occupation ? iraqis will welcome us with flowers and milk and honey. It will cost no more than 60 billions. We will rebuild the country and it will become a beacon of democracy in the middle east

As for air power destroying the russian army in Ukraine.... there are LOT's of ways to mitigate western air power when you have a strategic capability to do so. Hitting airbases with ground to ground missiles which are way more accurate than SCUDS, special force raids at the beginning for closer airbases, cruise missiles air raids etc.. Even tacticals nukes if necessary. The Russian doctrine calls for nuclear weapons at the onset of ANY conflict with a serious and dangerous adversary. Also, you severely underestimate the capabilities the anti-air weaponry the Russians have. It would have an attrition and effectiveness limiting effect not before seen. We have only faced crappy air defenses so far. In the 1999 war in yugoslavia, which I admit is long ago, Serbs with an air defense system from the sixties and seventies forced us to fly too high to effectively hit their army in Kosovo. We switched to strategic targets in Serbia proper to force them to withdraw. No such luck with Russia. We would also hit dummies half the time and lose aircrafts in doing so. We dont even know their exact capabilities in ECM and EMP weaponry. We could have some nasty surprises. BTW, NATO almost ran out of ammo (precision guided) in Libya (think about it):

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/04/sunday-review/what-libyas-lessons-mean-for-nato.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Russia would also not invade the parts of Ukraine that are hostile to them. Not necessary nor desirable and politically stupid. They would expand Novorussia to the areas dominated by ethnic russians that's all. No trouble with insurgency either.

THe Ukrainian army is not as bad as at the beginning. But there is a reason why Novorussia or the DOnbass, (call it whatever you want) is not being ethnically cleansed right now and back under control by Kiev. And no, it's not because they are holding back.

Putin only have to wait for the winter to have its effect on Ukraine. It will become a hellhole soon enough unfortunately. We havent bailed them out yet and we wont bail them out either. The west has its own economic problems to deal with. Now that the initial strategy of denying Sevastopol to the russians has failed, all the US wants is to create a permanent problem for Russia to deal with on its borders so Russia doesnt meddle in the West's business elsewhere in the world.They dont give a damn about ethnic Ukrainians or the Ukrainian state.

Americans are nice people. You guys are nice people. But your government isnt. That's not an attack on you. Governments are governments. Including the Russian one.

Don't fool yourself guys, a conventional war against Russia near its borders would be a carnage of american and western forces not seen since Korea or WOrld war II and would be shocking. Not to mention strategic escalation even with conventional weapons. A strike on electric installations using cruise missiles in Canada, Europe and the US would bring the war home and would prevent anyone from watching the war on TV with a bowl of popcorn Battlefront is headquartered in Burlington, Vermont. A Russian hit on the Baie James Dams in Québec would affect you. The cost would be simply too great. Not to mention the risk of nuclear escalation if one side starts losing badly. Victory would be phyrric at best.