Rinaldi

February 4, 2017

Turns 22-24:

While the rest of the Company begins to filter in and organize for a house-to-house sweep of Ley, 4/A/10 remains in contact with the town’s defenders, who are alternating between making a fight of things and running ever further into town. Two panzerschreck rockets smash into a building being occupied by one of the platoon’s squads and causes 4 casualties between the two rockets. Not good. The squad wisely chooses to crawl out of the building and out of harm’s way. I expect the steady injection of further combat power to prevent further needless losses like this, but being a firm believer that there is no such thing as overkill I opt to move in 1/A/37^th – the tank platoon that helped facilitate the rapid dismount – to support the infantry in close co-operation. Caution must be observed, of course, but I am confident that my ever growing fire superiority in Ley will prevent the enemy from assaulting the tanks in any meaningful way.

Despite the enemy’s stunning tenacity in the defense every casualty they inflict on my men is answered in kind and with interest, and the turn sees a MG section cut down as they try to use a telephone pole as (inadequate) cover. The Panzerschreck team do not escape either, and are cut down as they try to egress down the main road. The retreating Germans whom are not cut down in the last few minutes of play are observed streaming towards the buildings surrounding the town’s Eglise.

Above you see 1/A/37^th entering Ley. In the background you can just see elements of B/37^th at the base of Mannecourt Hill. By the end of the 24^th turn the Battalion mortars have slid into position, joining the HQ and B company. In addition, the dismounted tank crews at the crest of the hill positively ID a secondary Anti-tank gun on Hill 260. With a clearer picture of what caused such violence towards C/37^th I can begin dreaming up a scheme of maneuver. First, however, the dismounted crew must disseminate the information, and they can only do this by ‘running’ the info to Lt. Col. Abrams at the base of the hill. Until this vital info is passed along the Battalion net (remember: the spotting bonus caused by C2 knowledge) the attack will have to wait. This will give time to organize the two companies into assault formations and come up with a fire plan for the mortars and assault guns.

February 4, 2017

Loving the impromptu AAR, does the scenario justice I feel.

February 3, 2017

44 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

Since my work is in the conceptual information analysis part of reality, I'll suggest we make the lie coefficient: state control level of media on a 1-10 scale, squared. For Russia it comes close to 100, while Western governments could only hope for such a coefficient. Ukraine is somewhere in the middle, but they're not as competent as the Russian regime when it comes to controlling ones media. Perhaps Berlusconi could lend them a hand? :-)

Haha, fair play, your mathematic efforts are deeply appreciated. As for consulting with Berlo, I fear Putin has his own interpretation of 'Bunga Bunga' time.

44 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

Anyway my work doesn't make my argument stronger and to be clear: there is still a lot of lies in western media. However, Russian media is almost pure state propaganda inbred with fantasia and to the critical observer that's quite clear. Ukrainian media does also often reside in fantasia land but significantly less so than Russian media, not even mentioning the separatist amateurish propaganda outlets.

Indeed, it remains relative - and as Steve has said, track records matter. The Russian media has been consistently inconsistent, shall we say, in this regard.

February 3, 2017

^^

The same goes for the ICRC and MSF - whom historically have put themselves at great risk providing second echelon support to both military and civilian hospitals. The ICRC in particular tries to track POWs and walking wounded and make sure they are given good treatment in the enemy camps - a concern currently shared with AI whom have reported on summary executions of captured Ukranian soldiers. MSF had often been our first window into Syrian rebel casaulties in the 2011 to 2013 era.

These all, ultimately, relate to the nature of the fighting and present third party counts, sometimes well after the fact and corroborated with personal accounts. Which, I cannot stress enough, tend to corroborate Ukranian Army claims more often than not - and often what discrepcencies that do exist are more often a result of the fog of war (UA reports being 'on-the-spot' as Haiduk has clearly shown us) rather than deliberate misinformation, as our local Putinbots routinely claim

The Rand Corp. takes a more military interest in accurate reporting as their plethora of articles on the political and military aspects of the subject seek to advise and assist other militaries in learning from what we see. You can hardly assert you have lessons to teach when you are regurgitating propaganda.

Again, DMS, being wrong or uninformed isn't a cardinal sin, being willfully so is. Stop this ham-fisted attempts to pick apart things you cannot dismiss with appreciable evidence or understanding.

February 3, 2017

You know John, jokes aside I would be wholly in support of breach vehicles like that. I'm not sure if you've played the Ukranian or Russian campaigns in game yet (spoilers if you haven't) but there's definitely times where I was wishing for a dirt-dozer or minefield breach type of vehicle.

I'd pay good money to see an ESMB in game - but minefields with the density and complexity seen in the final mission of the Ukraine campaign are rare sights indeed.

February 3, 2017

Waiting with bated breath. Seeing T-64s that do not immediately become bonfires will be a rare treat.

February 3, 2017

5 hours ago, DMS said:

Please tell me how MSF, Amnesty International e.t.c are related to counting military casualties? Can you give me a link to their reports about VSU or DNR losses? If they are not related, why did you mention them? Beacuse they are NGOs?

If you think the above NGOs aren't involved in keeping track/attempting to address discrepencies in loss reporting both civilian and military perhaps you are not as knowledgeable about how modern conflicts develop as you like to claim - perhaps when the Sepratists and Russians begin co-operating with NGOs I will provide a report therein, as it is right now you are as likely to disappear on a fact-finding mission to that side of the fence as you are to come back with anything useful. Cheery!

I've seen all that I've needed to see. Every time you have been confronted with evidence that is too hard to handwave you 'clarify' your position, backpedal or ask what you hope to be rhetorical questions that are actually quite easily addressed by anyone with a scrap of thought - like this latest laughable comment re: NGOs.

I for one commend @Battlefront.com for singlehandedly slapping away the cranks and conspiracy theorists with a calm I can't even bother to muster for the internet- this forum is always so full of them to begin with, but they truly come out in droves when there's a contrarian point to mindlessly defend. See the above post for any further proof of that.

Edit: Its worth noting that I am not without empathy to the DNR 'cause' - fractious and decentralized as that may be. I don't just pay lip service to self-determination, if the Eastern Ukraine truly believe (and this is, frankly, a question worth asking) they should be independent than so be it regardless of my personal feelings about it - I take deep umbrance with their methods and Russia's obstinate involvement, however. I find the situation in the Crimea proper to be wholly criminal on the part of Russia but the Donbass is another matter. Nor do I hold Kiev to be wholly innocent, to suggest otherwise is foolish - the presence and coddling to organizations like Azov is enough cause for criticism there. That being said, on the balance of things I find Kiev to have the more sympathetic and legally sound position viz. Russia and being far more transparent (this is a relative phrase).

February 3, 2017

8 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Don't think I have seen a CM2 map with a 4Kmx4Km map. Well done! Looking forward to it as I enjoy mobility and moving reserves around large maps. Most maps are so small that the scenarios are nearly all assaults with restricted flanks.

Thank you. Hope you enjoy the AAR as well.

There's a few other missions that come close in size and scope, especially in CMBS, but yes it is a rarity. Our very own George MC produced one based on von Plato (Ia of the 5.Panzer iirc)'s accounts - and its a cracker for a tread head. Final Blitzkrieg and Market Garden both have infantry-centric missions on a similar size and scope if memory serves, the FB one being one of my favorite SP missions in recent memory. "Colossal Crack" which I also did an AAR for is also approaching that size, if memory serves, certainly in depth at least. I'm certainly missing more, but my memory does me a disservice with regards to the other titles.

Its a trend in map and mission making I hope continues, WEGO makes battalion level missions like this much more fun and bearable to play (& enjoy) and gives an operational kind of feel to the game. Objectives that normally wouldn't concern a Company leader (like ammo) become far less farfetched at this level. It also reminds me why I slightly prefer CM to Graviteam, because its rare to get a Battalion level action in the latter game.

February 2, 2017

1 hour ago, SLIM said:

I notice you've extended the map quite a bit.

Its the full 4km^2 allowed by CM at the moment. I basically scrapped the original map and created a master map of both missions' zones; to address serious discrepancies in Topography I noticed and some of the playtesters brought up, as well as distances etc. The map is a bit 'skewed' compared to reality in terms of direction but everything else is now basically 1:1 with the actual geography.

Forcing the US Player to attack both Ley & Moncourt and come out of it with the ammo and manpower to continue fighting immediately if needed - what Abrams himself expected of his men that day, and what Clarke undoubtedly expected given the fluid situation - would add to the difficulty of what was otherwise two separate fun but trivial missions.

Of course that means a quick US player won't be attacking Moncourt in a night attack, like in reality, but I think that was an acceptable sacrifice for more historical accuracy in other regards. Such as weather, which wasn't as bad that evening as I first thought, as well as what the AI can potentially do - which because of German records being piss poor, I have some leeway. Given how its playing out, I got to say, I'm quite chuffed with myself, its going as well as I would've hoped. Only a few wee problems to iron out but nothing fundamental.

Edit: Oh and needless to say the master map will be released sans most flavor objects for people to use at will.

February 2, 2017

You know, I had been taking you seriously for the last 20 pages or so, reading your posts, attempting to appreciate your position, but this last post is so ridiculous that I must conclude you're either being deliberately obtuse or are a comedian.

47 minutes ago, DMS said:
Ukrainian society is very ~~nationalistic~~ patriotic now, anti-maidan opposition is destroyed, communisitc party is prohibited. All NGOs and press are "patriotic". They all will support patriotic censor, not because they obey goverment, but because it helps them to win. "Zradniki" (person who is pessimistic and tells bad news) are critisized for setting panic without a reason. NGO, that would publish details about losses, post photos with dead VSU soldiers, would be punished not by goverment, but by "activists". I can give you a screenshot of Chakov hospital facebook public where administrairor says that she was asked not to publish WIA number. There are many instruments of non-goverment "patriotic control" in Ukraine
 

Ah yes all those patriotic Ukrainian NGOs like: MSF, Journalists Without Borders, Amnesty International, RAND Corp., International Observatories, the ICRC...

At this point it would perhaps be more prudent to ask "Who isn't a Ukrainian ultranationalist?" I am suspect #1 in this investigation. Hmmm...I have never said no to good Borsch...I wonder when I will receive my acceptance to the Azov Battalion. But wait - gasp - I am also partial to bangers and mash. A-am I a member of the IRA? Questions abound.

51 minutes ago, DMS said:
They should give no information at all while battle goes on, that would be a frank position.
 

This actually made me laugh out loud on the GO train. Truly, thank you for this. If I need any further proof that Russians and those in their government's sphere of influence have an ever-eroding perception of a free and open society and what it looks like, this asinine statement goes a long way to provide said proof.

February 2, 2017

2 hours ago, DMS said:

Information is accurate or inaccurate. "More dubisious than", "less dubisious than", I don't know how to estimate it. To calculate "lie coefficient"?

Bull. In other words you're backpedalling. Stop this silly dance, the information was only 'interesting' to you because you thought you had us had with that US State Department quote.

Let me put it in terms you'll understand, the Ukranian Army dispatches are more accurate than the inaccurate estimates given to us by the DNR - and by necessary extension the Russians. As to how to estimate it, you apply some level of independant thought and compare claims between both sides and the overwhelming amount of neutral or near-neutral third party observers who are on the ground risking their lives documenting combat and excesses - you know, independant media, you remember what that is?

Who comes closer in their given estimates, consistently, to the observed casaulties given by independant media? The Ukranian Army.

As for the lie coefficient, I'm a lawyer not a mathmetician but I'll take an honest crack at it just for you, boo:

2x to the power of state control :^)

February 2, 2017

So...bit of a brain fart, I realize I forgot to do the intermediate turns between the last two posts, and that there's a duplicate picture - woops:

Turns 16-18:

Heavy caliber artillery starts ranging on the base of fire platoon. I am not particularly worried; the cover in their immediate vicinity is excellent and they can displace easily. Despite ducking for cover they continue to trade fire with the row houses and observe enemy infantry starting to fall back under pressure.

As this is occurring, the ‘hot dismount’ is executed, well ‘shouldered’ by smoke and with the leading tank platoon from A/37^th spraying the unmasked buildings with coax.

It goes off splendidly, with the infantry taking absolutely no fire whatsoever as they dash to the cover of the hedge-lined buildings in front of them. Once they get into cover they briefly engage a HMG team seen slipping out the back of a building across the street, joining the general retreat – or perhaps rout – of the Germans towards the town center. Once the threat of heavy artillery has passed, the rest of A/10^th will move in this platoon’s footsteps and get to grips with the Germans in the town.

The situation just before reaching the edge of town can be seen above, at the point of dismount. Notice the smoke blooming on either side. An accurate estimate of enemy losses at present is basically impossible, given the firepower-based nature of the attack. I’m almost certain that the enemy has taken heavy losses, but I can’t presume anything. The trenches and row houses had been giving not-insignificant, if sporadic fire, and the artillery fire shows me the enemy has some fight left in them. I have to avoid the pitfall of proceeding too rapidly, but the constant indirect fire falling near my dismounts may spur me into rash action.

The situation in Ley therefore gets ever closer to a decision, so let’s turn back to the unfortunate Company C/37^th. By now Abrams and the other Companies have been made aware of the situation on Mannecourt Hill and Hill 241/260, with the last known Panzer positions doing the rounds on the Battalion net. For those unfamiliar with the C2 system of Combat Mission – which is excellent – this means that units will spot much easier if they already have a rough idea of where the enemy’s last known position was at. With the situation much clearer to the 37^th’s Battalion HQ, its time to start organizing for a second attack over the crest of Mannecourt Hill. Tentatively, the plan will be a well-supported and co-ordinated effort using Battalion mortars, Assault guns and the remnants of C/37^th to smoke and provide a base of fire on Hill 241, as B/37^th push. The manner of the attack remains uncertain; I’m debating the merits of trying a frontal attack. Regardless, in anticipation of these moves, B/37^th (less a platoon, who will follow shortly) and the 37^th’s HQ begin moving past Ley towards C/37^th. Naturally, and for good measure, they fire MGs at Ley as they transit past it.

February 2, 2017

Turns 19-22:

4/A/10^th gets to grips with the enemy in Ley. Germans are still recovering from the shock action of our rapid entry and several are caught dashing for cover, but return fire still causes a man to fall wounded in action. It will be the first of several losses in 4/A/10 in the coming minutes as enemy resolve once again stiffens.

B/37^th begins to fall in to the right of C/37^th at the base of Mannecourt Hill. They crush through an enemy mortar section hiding in some shrubbery and hedges along the way, a pleasant surprise. The mortars quickly surrender to the armor – those who survive the first violent burst of fire at least.

4/A/10 seeks to expand its toe-hold by cutting the main road and restricting the enemy retrograde movement. The hope is that they will create a kill-zone and continue to stack up enemy Panzergrenadiers as they break to the next house or scrap of cover. A squad from the platoon is able to dash across the road a fireteam at a time but the Germans largely escape for now. The platoon is facing rather furious, but desperate point-blank MG fire and is stuck in a firefight that at times no further away than the house across the street. A few attempts at a close assault are made but the assaulting fireteams withdraw under withering fire (no losses). Luckily, the Germans continue to abandon their positions at first opportunity and often negate the need for a renewed effort. These dashes by the enemy frequently result in several of them being cut down by automatic fire.

4/A/10’s struggle will not be a lonely one for much longer: Artillery fire is beginning to abate and is allowing the rest of A/10^th to either re-mount or follow in 4^th Platoon’s footsteps and move into town. The weapons squads are beginning to set-up in positions that sweep the main street of Ley.

February 2, 2017

34 minutes ago, JUAN DEAG said:

Battle of Omdurman?

Every example brings counter-example. Islandwala. Adwa, the Christmas Offensive - which is perhaps the most laughable of them all. Things must be brought in context. A well deployed, well led, force with sustainable technological advantages will generally defeat an enemy. But you don't always get the dream-team.

The point being that while the MBT design should always strive towards perfection, this reveals a lot less the fatal flaws in their designs than it does in their deployment. This even goes for the tanks that get their turrets tossed like a discus, is it the T-72M1s fault it gets crushed by an ATGM team or is it the apathetic Syrian officer who put it there? Being a total moron can negate quite a bit of your combat power.

February 2, 2017

8 minutes ago, sburke said:

just a thought - are there more than 9 items that can be listed and therefore overrun the UI? I have never really paid attention for anything other than what is actually damaged.

Precisely this. The Sherman has a lot of subsystems, and you can see this in the modern titles especially. UI will do a triage and bump up the most damaged UI to the top of the list. Which makes perfect sense.

February 1, 2017

13 hours ago, kinophile said:

That's very interesting note about the scale - 2 companies, various detachments, teams, etc, backed by far more concentrated artillery.

I remember reading an article years ago about troop concentration through the ages. They suggested a future where very dispersed, highly capable teams would form a deep, mobile and flexible front, using standoff, precision OTH artillery/missile systems to nail each other.

This war feels like a Spanish Civil War precursor to the WW.

Eh, artillery always scales for the mission - and attacking fortifications even in 'dressing' attacks always requires much more than the usual complement so in that regard I wouldn't read too much into it. Both sides have the firepower to spare too; its not like either side are launching sweeping, decisive efforts. Nor are they too capable for one reason or the other.

I imagine a lot of the r-strength firepower has to do with the fact that DNR infantry can't carry an attack without it...or with it, it seems. Thankfully.

Interesting analogy with the Spanish Civil War though, but I can't help but feel it doesn't fit much.' The static nature of the front is as much a political reality as a military one; we saw pretty dramatic maneuver warfare earlier in the conflict and pretty serious material losses. I'm willing to accept that there's a bit of exhaustion on both sides but certainly the UA has bounced back from their earlier material losses to the point where if they wanted to launch a clear, combined-arms operational effort, they could.

Nothing to speak for its effectiveness or cohesion though, which I'm in no position to even speculate on.

Re: "The fighting has caused dozens of Ukrainian military casualties " from @DMS

I got to say man, not even Haiduk is disagreeing with you. Not precisely sure what you're trying to get at - Haiduk's update of 30.01 mentions 1 KIA, 20 WIA - completely belivable and quite literally the definition of 'dozens' of casaulties especially when you take all the other UA's confirmed losses from other minor actions. Remember: Casaulties =/= solely fatalities. If your point here is to show that the UA is no less dubious a source than Russian and DNR claims, you're not making much of an impression. If anything you're showing the opposite.

February 1, 2017

13 hours ago, hank24 said:

Similar for me, one of my first wargames was Panzer '44 from SPI, featuring many of the Arracourt battles as scenarios. I bought it around '79 and still like it, though it has a really old concept.

Phantastic project, gentlemen. Actually, I am just playtesting some deviation scenario of the Ley attack, designed by DasMorbo.

Cheers Hank, and thank you for that Topo map link in the other thread. I'm glad @DasMorbo went ahead with the H2H modification. His constructive criticisms basically helped me finalize (and greatly expand) the Ley-Moncourt map.

Speaking of which, if you're curious the long-promised preview AAR can be seen here - and I will be updating it tonight.

January 31, 2017

Yeah I can see more dynamic weather effects kicking in; changing weather and spreading fire aren't too far gone from environemntal degredation and building destruction. Its more a 'when' than a 'if.' I'd like to see continued HE do more than collapse buildings however, and cause house-fires, I'd see that sooner than fire spreading through a wheatfield if I had my way.

Air-to-Air will likely never happen, and I also doubt we will ever see physical models for fixed or rotary wing aircraft - they make no sense even on the large 16km^2 maps to have 'on the board.'

I'm also doubting we will ever see an operational layer again. Finally, I think we won't ever see vehicle fortifications, and that will remain for the map-makers to get clever with.

January 31, 2017

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 4:14 AM, Bulletpoint said:

Fanatics are not necessarily stupid either, they just never surrender and never pull back. They should still take cover, unless given a direct firing order. Or unless we're talking about religious fanatics who actually want to die.

Well in the spirit of bumping threads that don't consist of feces flinging and screeching; @Bulletpoint basically sums up the great debate about how to define the soft factors. BF offered their own views on them in the early manuals, if I recall, but what a 'fanatic' describes can mean two very different things to two different map makers.

That being said, motivation doesn't relate to competency in game, and I always thought unit skill deals with how quickly they discover contact rather than how they react. A move to contact is a move to contact.

January 31, 2017

Strap in lads, this one's going to be a beauty.

January 29, 2017

Turns 13-15:

C/37^th continues to retreat and pick up the pieces, and are still in the process of reforming on the reverse slope of Mannecourt Hill. They are, for now, licking their wounds and I’m still in the process of thinking up a way to crack the German position. The crews of the stricken tanks have taken cover in the shrubbery and bushes on the crest of Mannecourt Hill and will hopefully survive long enough to gain some intel, and filter back to the Company’s position and inform them.

Going back to the assault on Ley, I’m shocked to discover that the trenches are not, in fact, completely abandoned as a panzerschreck team from within takes a chance at the advancing tank section, who are spraying the area with MG fire. It misses, but its too close for comfort, and over the next minutes they will temper their bravado and pull back a few dozen meters or so. Enemy mortar fire begins to straddle the rough axes of advance of 3^rd/A/10^th, equally putting a damper on the infantry’s impetus. While not particularly alarming, the situation developing on the right flank is beginning to be a source of some anxiety for me, and its clear that the attack won’t be a speedy affair. Sitting in the open and taking withering artillery fire is not what I envisioned for Ley.

Further spotting rounds begin to land, far too close for comfort, and it compels me to break off the advance and get the Platoon into cover and hugging earth. Prudence pays off, as only two men are wounded in action by the ever-intensifying indirect fire. I am not keen on imagining what would’ve resulted had I continued to advance the two assault squads.

Between C/37^th running into a storm of fire on the high ground and German indirect fire keeping dismounted thrusts at arm’s distance, I’m beginning to think its time to rethink things at Ley. Keenly aware that I’m expected to finish this mission in fighting shape – which includes ammunition – I must admit that the fight in Ley, despite overwhelming fire superiority, is rapidly becoming taxing. B/37^th and C/10ths inertness to the left of the assaulting companies is also grating. The planned flank round the rear of Ley has yet to occur due to the unexpected difficulty in getting a foothold in the town proper, and C/37ths rather stunning reverse. Now I’m beginning to think that a thrust to the rear of Ley would be a waste of B/37^th’s firepower anyways.

Readers will recall that the 4^th Platoon of A/10^th had been kept in mounted reserve and supporting by fire with their halftracks, now I’m hoping to inject them into the fight on the left, where both the base of fire and elements of B/37^th can suppress and cover their thrust. Once deposited into the buildings, already being prepped by HE, they can fight their way down Ley’s street, and their proximity to the enemy will nullify the threat of artillery. Hot dismounts are always risky, and while rare, they were conducted – especially by the 4^th Armored division. It’s time to get this battle moving again.

I’m hoping that with the infantry in town I can free up B/37^th and their accompanying infantry and put them in the fight. I have an idea forming around how to use B/37^th in conjunction with C/37^th to destroy the enemy positions on Hill 241.

January 29, 2017

4 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

How do you work that, split off a scout team from the squad? I haven't played with Russian forces, so I don't know exactly how they are organized.

Michael

That's the idea, a scout split works best. I often split the Company Command squad as well and keep the Company NCO mounted as a LAV Captain. Helps with C2.

It's give and take but with the BMP-3s you often have more than enough fire power to walk infantry onto the objective, even if they're in 4 man teams. I think I'm paraphrasing MikeyD when he said the idea was to 'have your infantry walk over the charred bodies of the enemy.'

January 29, 2017

Passive Aggression is like comedy without a punch line , and remember 1 smiley = 1 got em

" I dont follow this topic "

Ah so you're in the best position to take a ham-fisted swipe at someone who is actually trying to interpret the loose collection of rumors and conflicting reports that pose for facts in this situation. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but the gentlemen arguing with Steve don't need you to defend them, they've shown themselves quite capable of having a mature conversation with him on their own.

January 28, 2017

30 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said:

Whatever on earth makes you think I might be kidding myself? The scenario you describe after you wrote the above is pretty much the one I subscribe to. The difference between then and now is that aside from the Cuban Missile Crisis (which in the end got peacefully sorted out), the leaders back then were pretty careful not to go too far and were very anxious of war starting through miscalculation. I am not sanguine that the cowboys of recent years are capable of the same level of mature care.

Michael

My apologies, I had no intention of being condescending. Just making conversation and being rhetorical.

January 27, 2017

15 minutes ago, Battlefront.com said:

1. The units are deployed in order to maximize experience within a Brigade/Regiment, reduce negative impacts of full deployment to homebase morale, etc.

This was my understanding as well; and isn't it basically standard in small and hyrbid war scenarios? A lot of the fighting in the Donbass may have a conventional flavor to it, but it is basically the definition of a small/hybrid conflict at present.

To play devil's advocate here too, even if for reasons of plausible deniability the Russians are forced to limit and mix the deployment of their forces in rotations we must conclude they're reaping all the benefits of the net 'in theater' experience that applies to (1) as well. Whether they learn any lessons of value is another discussion though.

Edit: You clearly address this in your last paragraph, that's what I get for clicking 'reply' too eagerly.

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