Bulletpoint

There are some easy fixes that could be implemented quickly. As Womble said, use the right mouse button more. Combine this with context-sensitive orders: You click a unit, then right-click on an empty square. The unit gets a basic move order. Click on an enemy unit: your unit gets a basic target order. Want your unit to do something more advanced, like slow-move? Right-click and hold the mouse button, then a small popup appears, choose "slow". Or right-click an enemy unit, hold the mouse button, and select "target light". Well, having said that, the thing that really bothers me about the UI is something else actually. I'm playing on an old laptop, and because it's a bit sluggish, there's often a delay when deselecting a unit and selecting another one. That drives me crazy, but Battlefront can hardly be blamed that my computer belongs in a museum

I read the green symbol as meaning "impenetrable", and the red cross as meaning.. you'll soon need the aid of the Red Cross. But knowing Battlefront, I wouldn't be surprised if there's one in a million chance that a shot might penetrate anyway, even though you have "green" armour. By the way, I always wondered about the "top" armour. Isn't is quite normal that tanks have weaker armour on top? Yet in this game, the final column usually shows better armour (not in your example, typical) There's also a Sherman variant that has sandbags on the front. That one shows better "top" armour for some reason, even though the sandbags are clearly shown stacked on the front. EDIT:I should say my experience is limited to playing as the Allies.

I have a hypothesis about that as well. When you look at a concrete bunker, you notice that it has quite a large primary vision slit, which in turn has a smaller slit, and so on in a stair-stepping pattern, until the final, narrow firing slit. I am sure we all know these 'stairs' are meant to prevent bullets deflecting into the bunker, while still giving the occupants a wide field of view. However, I think that the game might use the outer dimensions of the bunker for determining if a shot has penetrated or not. If so, then all shots hitting these 'staircases' will count as penetrations, as the bullet has indeed passed beyond the outer limits of the bunker. But in fact these shots do not penetrate the actual bunker wall. So, in computer-speak: There seem to be two separate collision meshes, one for the outer limits of a vehicle/bunker, and another one for its internal, critical components. In the bunker, these two meshes seem to be adjusted wrong, making the game think that the bunker has been penetrated when it has in fact not. But some of the penetrations are valid. Those are the ones that hit right in the actual opening. Their messages of "penetration" are masked between all the others though. Well, it's all conjecture on my part. A technical guy from Battlefront would be needed to say if I'm right or wrong..

I assume you mean that it's nonsense the way bunkers work in this game, rather than what I said being nonsense - as I just theorised about how the game engine works, on the basis of your findings. And if so, we both agree that bunkers could do with an overhaul. I really like the way most things in the game works, and I hope to see Battlefront continue to improve, tweak and expand the engine.

In addition, I suspect that you are able to knock out bunkers with small arms because once you cause a casualty, unexperienced troops will tend to at least withdraw a bit, even if they are not all that shaken up. Withdrawing while in a bunker leads to the bunker being "knocked out", since it is not possible to re-enter. Reason why I don't see that in the Omaha mission is because the bunker crews are elite, and will not be suppressed, and even if they are, they stay put.

Bunkers and fortifications in general could definitely use some more attention from the developers. I'm sure they could do much more with it.

I'm the opposite. Of course I know they are not real soldiers, but for me, winning means winning well - which means winning with as few casualties as possible.

This mission deals with just a small part of the assault on Omaha Beach, which again only was a part of the total Normandy landing operation. I fully support that MG should be fearsome weapons in the game. And I posted this thread not to boast, but rather to share my joy (and relief!) that I managed to finally beat this mission which (for me at least) was a huge challenge.

My troops were in really bad shape towards the end - 3 soldiers in total in the left resistance objective, around 10 in the other.. all of them completely shellshocked. But no enemy. In the words of Popeye: I can't stand no more! Had a lot of setbacks during the mission, and very heavy losses. Even single enemy soliders hiding in the trenches after the artiller strikes would continue to fight with fanatical determination and skill, routing whole squads and sending them through machinegun fire, having them stand up and run just as mortars came in, etc. At one point, a single leftover enemy mortar support crew shot and killed two of my guys from around 250 metres distance, 2 shots, 2 kills, using only his regular rifle, causing my advance to grind to a complete halt. Also, towards the very end, when I maneuvered towards the road objective, spotting rounds for my last salvo of destroyer support shells began to come in short, hitting the field where all my troops were bunched up! And each destroyer spotting round is actually 3 rounds.. that was pretty tense. So, there you have it - 4 days of fighting this one. Medals, champagne and French girls with flowers please!

I cannot verify your findings about concrete bunkers being knocked out by small arms fire. In my playthrough of the Omaha scenario, I had the bunkers under continual tank fire for around 30 turns. Casualties in the bunkers were very few (I knocked out ONE bunker in those 30 turns), and caused by the rare lucky HE-shot going through the view slit. After HE ammo was exhausted, I kept shooting with machineguns, both from the tanks and from squads, and got loads and loads of "penetrations". These caused no casualties however. Possibly you get those results because of the flat terrain of your test map. The bunkers on Omaha are placed higher than the beach. However, I alsy tried against the single bunker that is placed closer to the water line, and results were the same with that one.. It's still higher than the actual beach though.

Forgot to add that I play on Veteran skill level, using WeGo.

I did it. I finally did it. Some of you might have read my posts recently about bunkers and how to take them out. Well, it was all part of my obsession with winning this virtually impossible mission. For those of you who haven't played it, this map takes place on Omaha Beach on D-day. It's an attempt at making a "Saving Private Ryan" map, and it does so quite well. The only problem is that even originally, it was intended to be really difficult. So all odds are stacked against the player, who starts on a flat, coverless beach under the noses of 7 concrete machinegun bunkers, plus machinegun nests, mortars, artillery, the works. To make sure that the machineguns would pose the proper challenge, the scenario author made all crews "crack" quality and all other enemy soldiers are at least veterans. Most of the player units are green or regular troops. The mission became incredibly difficult after later patches to the game, where machineguns were made much more powerful, since the mission setup was never changed to reflect this. The crews are still elite quality, now behind much more accurate and deadly machineguns. So, I seriously didn't think the day could be won, but I developed an obsession with it anyway. For four days I have been thinking hard about how to crack this one, and have been doing I don't know how many attempts. Today, I finally did it. Took the last objective and cleared out the Resistance Nests on the beach in literally the last seconds of this 2 hour mission. However, before I boast too much, I should say that it was only possible after playing several times, to the point of memorizing pretty much all the enemy positions, and sometimes directing fire against them before spotting them. Which I normally never do, as I consider it cheating. Still, this mission is so stacked against the player that the gloves came off Look mommy, I washed my hands for supper!

Ah, my mistake - didn't notice you said "wooden" bunker.

Would be nice to see these kick up lots of dust in the game as well.. at least in dry weather conditions.

I suggest you try a bunker scenario again after installing the latest patch

I understand the point about elite bunker crews putting up a fight, and that's a very fair point, but shouldn't they die anyway when hand grenades are thrown in? Maybe I misunderstand the way bunkers were cleared in reality... but I always thought that grenading or demo-charging a bunker meant that the crew would be killed or unconscious in the process. Most of this game works so very well and appears very plausible and realistic, that when something seems odd, it really sticks out.

Well, if the guys in the bunker can survive grenades and demo charges being thrown in, why not also survive flame throwers?

They come out guns blazing, and those damn nazi submachineguns are pretty lethal at 8 metres distance.. especially since the bunker crews are elite! I don't have much opportunity to place my guys further away, both because they need to get close to use their grenades, and because there's limited room for maneuver. I still dream of victory though, just haven't been able to figure out how to crack the nut yet

Well, good to know it's not just in my game that the bunkers are immune. From my testing I know that the inhabitans are immue as well. I wonder where the proper battleship support is - maybe busy somewhere else, though from what I read about D-day, most of the heavy naval guns were employed at both flanks of the landing zone, rather in the middle, trying to avoid friendly fire.

No PIAT available against this PITA. And the bunkers are invincible against all artillery I have.

Can't suppress them, they are in a bunker after all. The suppression they get from the hand grenades doesn't seem to do anything (possibly because they are elite troops). And I don't have many soldiers available, it was a miracle that I even managed to get two squads of engineers off the beach (Blue and Grey first mission, Omaha). It's so frustrating, I have victory within my grasp in an almost impossible mission, just can't seem to pull it off... Once, I actually did manage to clear one of the two strongpoints of all enemy and the three bunkers, but at that point I had 2 soldiers left, so couldn't clear out the machineguns at the Vierville Draw.

I suppose they forgot to assign "hotspots" to that building, for the game to know that when you are in that tower, the LOS-guy should place himself at the window?

I noticed that when you assault a bunker by placing engineers close so they throw grenades and demo charges, the crew of the bunker will storm out, all alive and well, and with guns blazing, killing several of the engineers. Surely that can't be all that realistic ? If the throwing of grenades represents throwing grenades through vents and slits, then why doesn't this kill (at least some of) the crew?

Did it use to be possible for the naval artillery to destroy the bunkers in this map? Before the patches? Anyone remember? I discovered the game a bit late, so never played it as it was back then...

I've tried keeping the concrete bunkers under machinegun fire from the front. Saw a couple of "penetrations", but not causing casualties. Not causing suppression either. Concrete bunkers are not deathtraps in this game.