Sgt Schultz

The thing about rarity is that is makes it more likely that some of the minor units that are excellent in their own right get swept under the Big Kitty rug. Look at all the "rare" units in the purchase screen that are fine additions. I will look into this again, with some test purchases. It has been a long time since I had rarity on, so this could be a viable way to go.

Aye, Fionn's rules are a basis for my attempts to keep things reasonable, yet varied. This tournament idea can be scaled down to either the "Large"(4282 points) or "Medium"(2560 points) size Meeting Engagement settings. It can also use ian's wonderful purchasing instructions, and the points can be set to any number in between. Any size smaller than the 6-7K area would most likely be more open to dis-allowing the long 88s. However, as Vanir points out, the Big Cats absitively SUCK in wet conditions, so the utility of the uber-Kitties will decline over the length of the tournament. Or did you think that the weather conditions rules were just pulled out of my butt to add complexity for its own sake? Mud is a greater threat to a Jagdpanther than anything the Allies can field. Go ahead and roll those dice... You can rule with an iron fist in round 1, and be crying by round 4. ;D I am a long-time disciple of Rune the great and sadistic. The late rounds' terrain, objectives and conditions will be as "tactical"(like deadliest catch skippers say it's getting 'nautical') as I can make them. What worked early may not work late, but low ground pressure and high mobility has a cost that may keep one from the late rounds. It is all about finding what could have been/should have been the best TO&E for an armored/calvary Battalion under a commander just like YOU, if all the pieces could have been in place. Not historically accurate, but not some gamey mess of uber units. Regular Joes whose commander happens to be the son-in-law of the Army Group commander, if that helps you to suspend your disbelief. ----

Thank you for the kind offer Steppenwulf, but fry is correct in his statement that the point IS to hand-pick a force from a reasonable force pool. No supertoons, No elite fanatic +2 units, no wads of uber-armor that makes everyone want to play as Germans... just an almost-real force that lies between gamey and historical. There are those in the community that create some of the finest historical battles and campaigns imaginable. There are those that prefer the uber-gamey freedom that QBs offer. I am the bridge. I like what could have been, but wasn't. ------ I am happy that there is discussion and debate. I half-expected this idea to lie on the ground and fall to page two almost immediately. As I stated earlier; even if the tournament does not go forward, or does so in a reduced form... the maps and hybrid service will be made available to all who wish to try it on for size. Sometimes one wishes to fight neither The Alamo or a complete fantasy battle.

The forum titled "Maps and Mods" is where all new submissions to the repository are temporarily pinned and discussed. It is where I go when I wish to discuss scenarios. campaigns or map making.

Overlap of mine tiles seemed to work well in tests I did back in 1.0. While piling them directly on top of one another seems like overkill, overlap and use of bands at least three action spots deep will make sure the enemy knows his boys are in a minefield. Scenario designers have to be extremely careful with mines to prevent gamey behavior that may "break" their battles. This usually involves having minefields that cannot be moved at setup, coupled with a few extra that the player may move. QB players may not take the time to practice with mines, and may therefore feel they may be wasted/avoided too easily.

RT, thanks for the input, and you are correct that players would be facing German v German and Allied v Allied. Players get one force for the entire tournament, and the pairs are drawn at random for each round. The limitations and rules are an attempt to balance player choice against TM workload, as well as trying to maintain a modicum of force parity and "realism". Otherwise one could buy an FO, 10-20 TRPs, a truckload of artillery and a few dozen each of sniper, LMG, and zook teams.... no thank you. Not the paradigm I am attempting to embrace. Been there, done that. Wonky C2 chains and supertoons etc are one of my specialties, and I feel that it would make for a lousy tournament. It boils down to 10 teams and 10 changes for 8-10 platoons, along with a decent and varied support and vehicle set, that will most likely have to deal with all three different nationalities at some point in the tourney. If tournaments do not have a comprehensive set of rules, then someone will find a loophole to dive through, and that usually causes bad feelings. This is all open for debate and input of course. The Big Cat Rules are up for debate, but I am fairly confident that I have found the sweet spot. The point of the exercise is making all the different elements work together, not dog-piling King Tigers onto the map. These are not bocage tight maps. The long 75s and 88s, coupled with superior optics, can make a telling difference in this terrain. Without limits, the Allied-picking players would bring almost exclusively Achilles/M10/Firefly to deal with the Big Cat hordes. This way, everyone knows they have room to bring some specialty units or maybe an extra short platoon of less expensive armor. I am quite aware of how daunting it looks as that wall of text, but once one starts buying, it falls into place as a natural and logical way to deploy a combined-arms heavy Battalion. Not the only way, or maybe even the best way, but it makes life for the TM easier. --

sburke, this is a H2H only battle, so it is a commitment. Sorry, but I didn't have 16 groups when I made this, and there was no way 8 was going to make it. Once I get my map backlog under some kind of control I plan on re-visiting all three of my previously released battles to find a way to make them playable solo. --

Bud, Thanks for the props. I am pretty happy with the way that one turned out. Ian, I am enjoying reading your DAR. Awesome idea, and if the tourney idea doesn't take off I am going to play a 20K soon. The size of the 7200 pointers in QBs is called "Huge" in the setup screen before purchase. I consider it "Large", but I didn't write the descriptions. Sublime, I figured you for a player before I posted the rules bro. I pity your first opponent, but if/when the Destroy points humble the horde, it may get less horrifying for the rest. But I somehow doubt it Commissar. --

Weapon, thanks for the kudos. I probably have more fun in the map editor than in any other area of the game, including playing. My productivity would improve if I would finish maps before starting another. I have like a half-dozen that are not "ready", and a wad of other people's maps that I have tweaked for QBs. Thanks for the props Sublime, ya' rabid horde-meister. I couldn't ask for a better "stress-tester" for my designs.

Thanks for the input GaJ! I have been comtemplating reinforcement timing for a while. I tend to test so much that timings get compressed, as I already know the routes/etc that I wish to take. I will re-visit this and possibly give it one last tweak. I am very glad that you are enjoying it. It can turn into a real head-scratcher as it progresses. A plethora of ways to buy the farm await.

Hehe John, I am aware that this will have an extremely limited pool of potential players. The number of fictional battalion-level players here can most likely be counted on the fingers of two hands. It can seem daunting to those who may be inexperienced at this level of play. That is why I did it. I have the time, the methods, the maps(almost done), and the desire to share something that may be outside of people's comfort zone. The tournament has no set start date yet, as I have no participants. Ten(with an alternate) would be enough. I can cut it down to a "large"(have rules for that, but piddlin' armor/vehicle amounts), and/or extend the arrival of reinforcements to decrease commander workload. I have been in the tournament situations that you have described. Hence my TM idea with all pertinent information being in the hands of someone that can keep the ball rolling no matter what, and rules that are as tight and well-thought out as possible. These are under review and will remain so until tournament participants agree on final version. --------- Note to all who read this - If the tournament doesn't pan out I will still offer the hybrid service and the maps to the community. I am not one to take my ball and go home. Make your own rules that the two of you can agree to. Send me your rules, force picks and reinforcement instructions and map pick. I will set it up as a scenario. ----------- I have been testing/training myself and the methods. I can set one up in about an hour if I have the information at hand. No briefings, no setup worries(player's problem), No AI plans... all I do is buy 'em, tweak 'em, plop 'em down and send 'em off to die. A battle smaller than huge would of course take less time to set up. I don't have to agonize over briefings and "is this force balanced?". Fast-food scenario making. QBs to go! It is past time to take QBs away from gamey, and into fictional-but-fun. ---------------- Keep at it Captain John, you could be a full-bird Colonel someday if you wish.

No, definitely NOT the environmentally friendly kind. This a hybrid of QB and scenario and tournament. An attempt to find the sweet spot of ahistorical yet immersive, somewhere between grog... and gamey b@sterd. A way to slap a choke-chain on the gamey, and at the same time allow the grogs to let their hair down without feeling somehow unclean. This is an idea that I have been kicking around for a while, and has reached a point that it could use some community input with regards to rules. The major stumbling block(for me at least, 'cause I wanna play) as I see it now is that this idea requires the services of a person or persons that will not participate but are familiar with the editor, to serve as Tournament Master(s). My idea, so I will gladly do it if no other generous party can be found. The time involved in setting these battles up is minimal if one has the experience in the editor. The Broad Strokes... A test of your tactical abilities in creating and commanding a combined-arms battalion. Can you forge a force that can take on ANY similar-sized force of any nationality... and kick their @sses into the next time zone? Meeting Engagements of 45 minutes, with up to a possible 15 minute overtime. Reinforcements at 10 and 20 minutes. Each round will take place on progressively more challenging terrain and weather conditions. Elite, No Intel, WEGO, PBEM. 1. Each player goes into the QB purchase screen and selects a "Huge"(don't be scared, there are rules) battle size force for a Meeting Engagement. This selection is recorded(i will show you) and sent to the TM. This is the player's force for the duration of the tournament. The force is fully reconstituted for each new round. 2. TM selects forces for both players in the scenario design editor and assigns destroy points/reinforcements, then places forces for both sides on map setup zones, and then saves it as a scenario. 3. TM repeats process on opposite sides of the map to eliminate possible "map bias".(greatly reduces whining potential and need for 'mirror maps') 4. Player pairs fight these battles simultaneously. 5. Two(or 4 if field is large enough) lowest scoring players are eliminated. 6. Lather, rinse, repeat until one is left standing. 7. Winner receives a copy of "The Panzers and The Battle of Normandy". A nice hardcover coffee table book about the efforts to deploy German armor to repel the Allies. Not too groggy, and plenty of excellent photographs. If they published a Panzer Pop-Up™ book, I would offer it to last place. ---------------------------------- The Details... Please take note of the words and phrases MUST, MAY, AT LEAST, NO MORE/GREATER THAN. They can make the difference between "What the hell are you thinking?" and "OK, I get it." Purchase rules - 7200 points. What a number! Soft Factors - No greater than Regular Experience/High Motivation/0 Leadership for global Formation settings. No more than ten Infantry/support and four vehicle/Armor units may be changed to a maximum value of Veteran/High/+1. All units will be set to Excellent equipment, Fit and Full ammo. Infantry - Granularity without gameyness. Immersion without exacting obedience to historical TO&Es. For some it is a line, for others a grey area. Must purchase one Btn. Must include Btn HQ and XO, and all relevant Co HQ and XO. No more than ten units(squad/HQ/team/support weapon) may be changed within the formation in regards to Experience, Motivation and Leadership. Any and all modifiers may be changed within the selected units. All additional independent team and/or vehicle selections must conform to Btn standards. Must retain at least eight organic platoons and may have no more than ten platoons total. Independent pioneer/engineer platoons that are not connected to Btn C2 DO count towards the total. No more than ten independent teams may be added in total, under the following rules... May delete no more than one squad per platoon, per company. May add no more than three independent teams to said platoon only. May add no more than one independent team to no more than a single other platoon in each company. Organic selectable A/T assets(zook/PIAT/schrek) do NOT count towards these totals. Btn and Co HQs may have no more than one independent team assigned directly(no supertoons). Example.. maximum usage would result in three Independent teams in one plt, one team in another and one with Co HQ for a maximum of five per company. May delete any organic support weapons and their associated HQs/Formations(examples... support/ATG company, or paring down the number of schreks/zooks) Organic indirect fire assets are subject to Artillery Rules below. May NOT use these HQs to rebuild custom formations/supertoons(ya' gamey b@sterd). May delete any organic vehicles. ------------------ Transport/Light Armor/Recon - The maps will be large, the distances long, the ammo needs great, and the reinforcements may need a lift to be of use and/or to reduce fatigue. Must provide armored transport(HT/Bren) for at least two platoons. Must provide soft transport for one platoon. Any personel transport must be assigned directly to the relevant Plt HQ. (if the HQ dies, the vehicles suffer morale penalties, so assignment to Co/Btn HQ makes them too tough) Any and all ammunition may be taken at setup or at any time by any unit under the player's command. Must select at least two Wheeled Recon or Light armor units. May retain/add any number soft vehicles(trucks/jeeps/kubel). Wheeled Recon(M8, Puma, Staghound, etc) may be assigned to Infantry Co and/or Btn HQs, as well as any armor HQs. Tracked Recon/light armor(Lynx, Stuart, etc) must be assigned to Armor HQs. ----------------- Armor - Even after tweaking the infantry, transport force, and artillery... there should still be a healthy amount left for armor. The main reason for Huge size is the ability to field an armor force of decent size without sacrificing infantry. Balancing capabilities and numbers is the order of the day. General Rules - Must select a Formation and manage from that base. Must field at least five tanks of 75mm or better(57mm Churchill may count towards these due to its Kitty-killer potential). No Btn HQs allowed. First Plt HQ must have at least two subordinate units. Two platoons of three units each are required before the seventh may be a CO HQ. Any fully tracked vehicle may be used to count towards these totals(example... Stuart, Lynx). Any heavy wheeled recon(M8, Puma) may count towards these limits. All platoons must have at least three units total before making another platoon. May add more than two subordinate units to any platoon without forcing new platoon formation. Example... 1 plt HQ tank with two M8 and two Stuart as heavy recon element. Specific German Limitations/Big Cat Rules - No more than one 88mm L/71. Either King Tiger or JagdPanther. No more than one 88mm L/56 Tiger, unless an 88mm L/71 is not chosen, in which case another may be added. No more than two 75mm L/70 Panther, unless an 88mm L/56 or L/71 is not chosen, in which case another may be added. Total of no more than four. No other purchase restrictions. Examples of minimum armor TOE - 7 units - 1 Co HQ, 1 plt HQ w/2 units, 2nd plt HQ w/2 units 8 units - 1 Co HQ w/1 unit, others same as above 9 units - 1 Co HQ, 1 plt HQ w/2 units. 2nd plt HQ w/2 units, 3rd plt HQ w/1unit ------------------ Artillery - Soft Factors do not apply to Btn standards/totals. Any and all indirect assets may be adjusted in regards to Experience, Motivation and Leadership to Tournament maximums of Vet/High/+1(high/+1 only applies to on-map). No more than eight total TUBES/barrels(not batteries) of 81mm. These can be selected either as on- or off-map assets. Allied small-calibre on-map mortars(51mm/60mm) may be selected at the exchange rate of two tubes per every tube of 81mm taken from maximum allowed total, up to six small-calibre tubes. Organic or Independent is allowed, and will not count towards independent team limits. No more than four tubes 105mm, 107mm/4.2 inch, 117mm, or 120mm. Mix-n-match is allowed if possible. Example... two-tube 105mm battery and two-tube 120mm battery. No calibre larger than 120mm allowed. No rockets. No aircraft. May preplan smoke missions only for any area on "friendly" side of objectives. No HE pre-planned barrages. Artillery assets of greater than 81mm will be brought on as reinforcements at the ten minute mark. Two tubes of 81mm must be brought on at the twenty minute reinforcement... either on- or off-map. Tip - Truck mounted organic on-map mortars have room for other folks to catch a ride. ----------------- Fortifications - No more than two TRPs may be selected. No other Fortifications may used. TRPs may NOT be placed more than approx 100 meters beyond an objective as measured from friendly setup zone. Reasonable people obeying reasonable rules in a reasonable fashion. No need to pace off exact distances, just be close. ------------------ Reinforcements - A major difference between a QB and a scenario. Adds depth while reducing initial commander load. Initial force selection should be done with an eye towards not driving the TM insane. Guidelines to follow... All reinforcements will be placed in an approximately 50/30/20 ratio, or as close as possible. 50% of the total force, divided by type, will begin the battle on the map. 30% will arrive in ten minutes. 20% will arrive in twenty minutes. Reinforcements will be placed in reasonable positions for immediate movement in the general setup zone map area requested by the player. Selection/Placement Guidelines/Rules - The first 50% starting on-map will consist of... Infantry - Btn HQ/XO w/assigned team/transport(if selected), 1st Co HQ/XO w/same, and the first four selected platoons along with their transport. Any wheeled recon assigned to infantry is placed at this time. If 1st Co has less than four organic platoons, then the next ones in order of TOE selection will be placed. Independent platoons(engineers), and/or organic support/pioneer platoons may be placed here by request instead of breaking into 2nd Company. Transport must be placed for two fully mounted platoons. Either both armored, or one soft and one armored, so initial force selection must reflect this requirement(see above transport C2 rules) . 1st Company is loaded for recon, breaching if desired, and movement to contact. The ham in the sandwich. Armor - 1st plt HQ and subordinate units. All light Recon/Light Armor vehicles must be placed on map at start, and will count towards the armor 50%, so load 1st platoon with the Stuarts/M8s/Pumas/etc that you may wish to have, along with that first HQ tank. If placement of recon/light armor takes unit numerical totals over 50%(you would need six recon and five armor), then the HQ tank is brought in at 10 minutes. Ties always go toward earlier arrival. Ten Minute Reinforcement - 30% consisting of follow-on troops, armor, and any larger caliber off-map assets. Support/Heavy Weapons Companies show their faces here if selected. The bulk of the heavier armor rolls in. Infantry - 2nd Co HQ/XO w/team/transport(if selected), and all but two platoons. At least one platoon must have organic transport, so see above C2 rules. Support Company forces arrive, but the HQ does not until the total force is on-map. Any further Independent infantry platoons(engineer/pioneer) arrive. Armor - 2nd plt and subordinate units. Artillery - Any off-map assets larger than 81mm arrive now. Twenty Minute Reinforcement - 20%, made up of the stragglers. The troops that had to walk the whole way, the tank(s) that broke down, and the last dregs of 81mm. Infantry - 3rd Co HQ and entourage(if selected), and the last two platoons. Must be dismounted(they walked, therefore they are late). Support Co HQ and entourage(if selected) arrive now as well. Armor - At least one tank must be kept back for this reinforcement. Otherwise it will be the lesser amount of what was left after initial deployment. ------------------ Maps and Conditions - One map will be used per round for all battles and participants. All maps for the first 4-5 rounds will be made available to the public as a map pack download at the repository once all tournament force selections have been turned in to the TM. Maps will have from two to four Occupy objectives, trending upward as tournament progresses. Terrain will be mixed, trending from light bocage/farmland/hamlet up to large village with surrounding woods and hamlets. Bluffs, swamps, creeks, broken terrain, etc will be placed to discourage "edge crawling", but there will be more than adequate room/concealing terrain for lateral/flanking maneuvers. No map will "require" the use of pioneers/engineers/breach teams to be successful, but all will benefit from having a few on hand. Examples... fields may not be hemmed in, but breaching onto that sunken road in a better spot might be handy. Blasting through Tall Walls near structures/compounds may also help. Mouseholing opportunites will become available in later rounds. Less bocage means more other reasons to blast. Conditions will become more challenging as the tournament progresses. Day/Clear/Very Dry/Light Wind for round 1. The final round may progress to Dusk/Rain/Wet/Heavy Wind. Since these battles are "designed" in the scenario editor, more exact lighting conditions can/will be acheived by exact time stamps at battle start. Wind direction will always be perpendicular to axis of attack. ---------------- Scoring - Commanders are held accountable for casualties. Throwing lives away means throwing chances for victory away. Being mindful of the tactical situation that may result AFTER your battle is complete may garner bonuses. All terrain objectives will be "Occupy". The total terrain objectives score available will always be 350 points. Each map will have a single small(approx four tiles) "unknown to both" "Occupy" objective worth 50 points. These will be positions that could be used to either secure routes for follow-on forces... once the brass gets the lead out and sends them... or to recon/interdict enemy follow-on forces. It could be a farmhouse at an intersection, or a small wooded bluff that overlooks a possible reinforcement route. There will be at least two or three of these not-so-obvious positions on each map, but only one is scored. First round will have the most obvious, with them getting progressively more difficult to choose from. The war is larger than your battle Commander, so send a squad or a team and check those areas out before the battle ends. All units will be assigned to a "Destroy" points group. If it walks, it goes to group 1. If it rolls on wheels or tracks, it goes in group 2. Each group is scored at 300 points, for a total of 600. Human wave cannon fodder? Ouch. Using a squad when a two man scout team will do? Not advised. Using unsupported Panthers as Recon? hehehe. Fools rush in where experienced commanders fear to tread. The Lateral Mortar-Fear Boogie is a step all should learn. ----------------- Alternates/Dropouts - Poopoo occurs. The TM will be provided with all passwords at force selection. Any planned yet unavoidable absence from play(business, family, etc) of greater than 7 days will result in an alternate chosen by the player involved being supplied with the password and force selection sheet by the TM until the original player returns. The latest file will be sent by the remaining player in the pairing, and play continues. If an unannounced dropout of greater than 14 days occurs, then an alternate chosen from the pool will be provided with all above items and accrued points/tournament position. Play continues. ----------------- Force selection recording - Not really all that hard. A few abbreviations and a standardized method of listing. Only units that are changed/added need more than a moment's checking, so the process goes quickly. All organic selectable teams are recorded in parenthesis. All adjustments are also in parenthesis. It only has to be done once by the player, and working from a list to transfer into the editor is not difficult. Experience: V - Vet, R - Regular, G - Green, C - Conscript Motivation: H - High, N - Normal, L- Low(can be a survival trait being that risk-adverse) Leadership: +1, 0, -1, -2(why I have no idea but who am I to judge) Example: Inf - Panzergrenadier(Motorized) R/H/0 global 1 Btn HQ XO FO(V/H/0) 251/1 Puma Puma 1 Co HQ (V/H/+1) XO Sniper 1 plt HQ (V/H/+1) squad(shrek) squad Scout (V/H/0) Breach (V/H/0) A/T 251/1 251/1 251/1 2 plt HQ squad squad squad(shrek) Sniper Truck Truck Kubel 3 plt HQ squad(shrek) squad squad etc etc etc ------------------- It is up the flagpole. Now to see who salutes it. Any and all constructive input is requested.

LOL. No, of course not Sublime. Been thinking of this idea for a while. I just play bagpipe music, dubbed over with a Russian Commissar screaming threats, as you attack. It gives the proper flavor for dealing with your horde.

RR bridges have been giving me fits in the editor for some time. If I find a way to make the ends even I will post it. The only half-decent workaround I have found is to use a bridge that extends one tile deep onto the land on both sides, and then to RAISE the elevation of the bridge to make a small bump where the bridge meets the RR tile. Vehicles do a little wheelie as they get on the bridge, but at least this vulnerable behavior is done one tile back from the edge.

Anything that you may find, that fits the response that is being replaced, would be more than fine.

If you have to have a flat roof, make the building two stories taller than needed in the editor, and then rubble it down as needed. Looks sorta lame(maybe a "roof" flooring mod?), and weakens the structure, but it works for now. -

Elite/WEGO here. At the battle sizes I play, Iron is a bit too much of a workload, and RT would involve the use my my Ronco™ Pocket Difib Unit. -

Yep, I like a nice evening of single player campaign play. It certainly is more in line with my mental muscle memory of how to treat units and how to use what I have. Plus the memories of being back in my teens and reading about the battle that I am now playing is its own special thrill. Playing against said unscrupulous lot has sharpened my scenario making skills though. It is now much harder to "break" one of my battles by throwing lives into the fire to achieve objectives. My real fun comes through the editor if truth be told. I spend as much time there as I do all other CM use combined. Maybe someday I will buckle down and finish some of the dozen maps I have going. My editor work is what gives me all these gamey tips, not my prevailing opinion or choice.

Junior member trying to get on the sig line? He will have to correct you on a much larger error my friend.

In CM 4.0, the pioneers will jump out of the Hannomag, grab a bridge section, plop it down in the assigned water tile, then go back for the next section to repeat. Then that section of river is treated as road. I can just see it now... four or five pioneer teams trying to bridge a river under fire during an hour long battle. Yeah, that won't take many man-hours to code. Charles' jar would burst from the overload.

Sorry Agusto, the only way to ammo up a 44 is to buy Bunkers. They do not have much, but they have some. Yet another reason for ammo crates.

I split all my squads before getting ammo in the setup phase. If I do not do this, then the 9mm gets shared out to teams that do not have any MP40s once I DO split them. Dead weight is never good. In addition, if you split squads, then load them in their transports in such a manner that they do not re-combine... you have a MUCH faster and more efficient deployment upon arrival. No more exiting, then waiting for the next orders phase to split them. A lot can happen while one is waiting for the movie to play out. Three halftracks with teams from each of the three squads in each one.

Scenarios/Campaigns are the only way to go to avoid gameyness. There is no such animal as an accurate QB. Why? Destroy Points. Without the penalties imposed by that feature, that is only available in designed works, then QBs are ONLY for those moments when you want to cut loose... not for any kind of accuracy at all. If a player is not FORCED to care for his units, then he will be tempted to take every possible advantage available. Human nature. I am quite happy playing a historical scenario where my opponent is constrained in the same manner that I am. I like both types of play. I did my time in grog-land with my three full boxes of ASL maps/counters/scenario sheets for close to 20 years. Now, I get to let my hair down occasionally and really use the resources the way I would have if I had been in charge. If I choose historically accurate QB buys, I lose. If I use my hard-won knowledge of the editor and the units at my disposal... I may still lose, but not as badly. This is a QB thread... it lives and breathes gamey. The OP asked a question, and I gave an answer that is consistent with the game engine's capabilities. This is the seedy underbelly of CM, where grogs fear to tread. Find an accurate scenario and send me a setup... Over 30 years of groggy WW2 gaming experience awaits your pleasure. ----------- If a thread is about QBs, it is not about accuracy. It is about blowing the livin' cr@p out of your opponent in an orderly, proficient and military manner. ----------- To paraphrase Conan... What is best in QBs? To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to see the lamentation of their commander in dropbox chat.

Excellent work! I cannot wait to get my grubby little hands on that map.

LOL! If you played against the ravenous horde that I do on a regular basis, you would take every slim advantage you could. If you think that is gamey, then try this on for size my historically accurate friend... Buy a German Infantry Plt. Delete everything but the HQ. Buy 6 Scout Teams(that is 18 MP40s thank you very much) Buy 2 LMG teams. Taa daa... instant SMG toon... before BFC releases one. Place in ambush positions and set to "purée". Platoon HQ... 28 points Scout Teams... 29 points each LMG42 teams... 28 points each Vaporizing the enemy ... priceless.