Wiggum

Turn 26-35 1.Zug was still not able to move, some GI's are still defending very stubborn. But i also saw some of them routing... After some spotting rounds hit my right flank i withdraw my HMG and 2.Zug from there and minutes later artillery hammered this position. I had to use more aggresiv tactics to kill the remaining US tanks in overwatch. I ordered my Marder and my Panther to attack them simultaneously. One M10 soon started burning after a Panther hit him in the front, another M10 took 5(!) hits but was still able to fire at one of my Panthers and he managed it to kill his main gun so that Panther is useless for the rest of the time. One of my Marders on the right flank hit the Sherman at the bridge but was not able to kill him. Another Marder hit the Sherman behind the village but also was not able to kill him finally. With only 10 minutes left i have to attack the village now ! I ordered two PSW to the right flank to provide even more covering fire for the final assault of 1. Zug. I will try to move 2.Zug into the village too but first the M10 has to be destroyed. A Marder open fire:

I also get this FPS drop with trees + medium or stron wind. I have a ATI 4870 with the new drivers, Win7 and a strong CPU (4x3.2Ghz) and 4GM RAM. Without stronger wind (only gentle wind for example) i get 40+ FPS even while scrolling through a forest. But as soon as wind is at least medium i can see a massive FPS drop making the game unplayable !

Thomm said that he made a official report but the best would maybe to open a new thread (there are ne ones for everythin anyway at the moment) !

Thats what i mean. Simulating "weak spots" in the hedgerow is important i think. I can remember a situation where we took our Klappspaten and beat a thorn hedgerow to pieces so we could move trough. Was maybe 2m high and 1.5m wide but at least it was a "weak spot" (not so thick then the rest).

Turn 19-26 My Panther killed one more Sherman and at least one M10. One of the Panther got hit multiple times but most of the rounds bounced off. Two Marders also went into overwatch and one of them soon got hit by cal.50 that wounded the crew and let them bail out... Shermans advanced closer to the village and can not be spotted by my tanks, i will have to take them out with my Panzerschreck teams. A well aimed rifle grenade (?) took out one of my HMG's on the righjt flank and a artillery strike killed another one at the left flank. 1. Zug is still in position infront of the village but i saw americans running away from the village so i suspect that i now can infiltrate the village and capture it finally. I will try to move 2.Zug closer to the village, at the moment they are pretty much useless for me. Giving a Marder a cover-arc seems to be a bad idea, you have to use the facing command to let him point his gun into the right direction. A smoke screen provided by my mortars in in place but way off target and useless too. But im sure i will win by capturing the village in the remaining turns !

You can try one of the Compatibility modes in Win7, i got CMSF working with that on Win7 64bit. Try XP SP3 for example !

I just had a Marder under fire from a Caliber .50 of a Sherman. The Marder missed him 3 times (tree, too high, too short) before the crew bailed out after one of them getting wounded. I also saw M10's missing a few shots at one of my Panthers and also saw a AT-Gun missing against a hull down PSW. No issue for me on that.

Just had it again...argh ! The MG42 of one of my squads opened fire on a M10 (most likely they were trying to hit the crew) on 650m distance ! Can you even see that the crew is exposed at that distcance ? Most likely not... This has to be a bug in the Tac-AI ! I mean, we are having AT guns firing at infantry and giving away there position and now we have infantry firing at tanks with small arms and saying "hello, please shot back"...

Ok, but any kind of fence that can easily be crossed by humans also prevents most animals from running away... So because a cow cant get through most fences in RL then maybe we should them make them a much harder obstacle ingame too ?

Totally agree about the infantry open up on tank commanders even if they are 700m (!) away. What are they thinking ? This should be towned down, really it can turn out very bad for the infantry...

Turn 11-18 My worst fear during these turns was that the guys from 1.Zug get hit by artillery fire while still unable to move away from the hedgerow where they took cover. But the noise of the gunshots got quieter over a few minutes, i think the defense inside the village only consists of 5-10 men. Ah, and after the smoke of the battle was gone it looks like i was able to knock out the halftruck...most likely a mortar shell killed him. Explosions occured in the area between my 2 Platoons and my HMG's inside the forest. Rifle grenades or light mortar...i dont know. But i scared me enough so that i pulled the 2.Zug back into a more save position. Finally my Panther tanks arrived and i ordered them into the clearance and gave them cover-arcs so they will engage advancing enemy tanks on the other side of the map. Only a few seconds after the Panthers arrived there, enemy Sherman tanks were spotted and attacked by them. At least 2 kills so far. My artillery strike on the tree line behind the village started and some shells exploded into the village...not a bad thing at all. One thing is clear, i need more man close to the village to finally assault it, the hedgerow on the right flank make it impossible for the 2.Zug to move to the crossing without being a bit to long in a kill zone. A Panther in overwatch position: Enemy Sherman tanks advancing: M10 tank destroyer searching for targets Reading a AAR before playing the battle is always a bad idea. At least i force no one to read it although this would be possible, you know...

Turn 5-10: Just as the first mortar rounds were falling into the village my 1.Zug was receiving MG fire from the buildings only 100m away. A few seconds later the first casualties were taken. The smoke screen was already gone and my MG's and PSW had finally LOS to the village and started firing at the buildings. My 2.Zug was now in position on the right flank covered by dense trees and joined the party. A enemy halftrack was spotted and took some hits by small arms but that could not stop him. A Panzerschreck team missed him only by one or two meters... Some men of 1. Zug were already in panic, but the defenders got more and more supressed by mortar and MG fire. Suddenly one of my PSW got hit ! Like i expected...the tree line behind the village. I ordered a artillery strike of my 10.5 cm leFH 18 and pulled the other PSW back. The situation is critical, without the PSW's i maybe will not have enough firepower to rout the enemy. Mortar of Heavy Platoon firing: Soldiers of 1.Zug running for cover after incomming MG fire: The KO'ed PSW, the crew survived:

@ all Please make a quick test and report back ! Go to the Scenario Editor and just make a map full of trees of different kind. Now set the wind to gentle and go to 3D Preview. Any lag ? Now go back and set the wind to strong... Heavy lag or what ?

I agree with ParaBellum. Moving the camera through the dense wood in the "Breaching the Bocage" scenario means absolutly no lag for me (only light wind). But in the "Closing the Pocket" one with medium wind you will get massive lag while scrolling through the woods. ParaBellums screenshots prove that there is a issue with the wind moving for sure, anyone who doubts this can try it out and will be suprised.

Thanks akd ! Ok, looks like any hedgerow larger then knee-high can not be crossed by infantry, thats something to remember... Also i would like to have the scenario designers use small holes in those hedges, that could simulate points where it is possible to jump over or go through as well.

Turn 1-4: While my pre-planned smoke screen was in incomming i moved 2.Zug forward, using two scouting teams as spearhead. I also ordered my mortars to prepare a strike, knowing that this will take same minutes. After a few minutes the smoke screen was dense enough end i ordered 1.Zug to run over the open ground infront of them into the orchard while my HMG opened fire on expected enemy positions. My PSW drove into hull down positions and looking for targest (i gave them cover-arcs). 2.Zug get stuck because of a hedgerow that could not be crossed so that plan of the flank movement has to be canceled, they now will dug in in the woods and provide supressive fire from there. Not a single enemy spotted so far... A HMG supporting the assault from 1.Zug:

To make this clear, we are not talking about the bocage or dense 3m hedgerow. Im talking about the small (looks ingame like 1.5m) hedgerow. Being a soldier by myselfe for over 2 years i had go through and over some hedgerows and know that it can slow you down massiv but much better then getting into a kill zone by running around it. At least they maybe should look a bit more like a obstacle ingame, just by lookinmg at them most players think that infantry can cross them like walls ar fences.

If there is no fix then i would advise the scenario designers to not use them at all because they totally ruin the immersion and destroy tactics that would most likely work in real life.

Looks like infantry cant move even trough small (1.5m high) hedgerow which feels a bit stupid. I would understand if such a obstacle would slow them down but come on, at least you should get through it without have to run around... The infantry jumps over fences and walls so why they have such problems even with low hedgerows ? The scenario designer have to be very careful using them, they will block movement just like a river and forcing the player to move around and into kill zones which feels like bad design if you ask me. So, why are small hedgerows such obstacles for infantry ?

Hi, i will post a small AAR about the Demo scenario "Closing the Pocket". I play as German against the US AI in WEGO / Iron. I will report back every 3 turns and refer to the overall situation and cool actions that happen. Also i will provide informations about what commands i use and for what specific purpose. ---------- My Mission: 1. Kill as many Amis as possible 2. Capture the small village in the middle of the map 3. Capture the crossroads in the east of the village My Units: I command a understrengh PzGren. Kompanie that lacks one of his Rifle Platoons that got annihilated during an earlier attempt to campture the village. - Rifle Platoon - Rifle Platoon - Heavy Platoon (4 HMGs, two 81 mm mortars) - 1 FO (10.5 cm leFH 18) - 4 PSW's Reinforcements: - 2 Panther tanks - 4 Marder tank-destroyers The enemy: Most likely a US infantry company reinforced by 75mm AT-Guns and Shermans. Oh, and artillery for sure... The plan: I will start with a pre-planned smoke screen that will be provided by my 10.5 cm leFH 18. This smoke screen should help the 1.Zug to cross the open ground infront of them unharmed. The HMG's will supress enemy ATG's and infantry as will the PSW's to while being hull down in the small clearings. If the smoke screen is deployed i will move the 1. and 2.Zug forward. 1.Zug will advance through the ocharde in the middle and infiltrate the village. 2.Zug will advance on the right flank and capture the crossroads and dug in there to provide flanking fire into the village. My mortars will supress any spotted enemy threats. Most likely this will be enemy ATG's in the tree line behind the village... I put my HMG's into hide mode, just like the two Rifle Platoons. My FO has a short cover-arc so he not opens up while still spotting. The same goes for the HMG Section leader and a Panzerschreck team of the 1.Zug. I have positioned the Company HQ close to the mortars, the FO is in radio contact with this HQ, so he can spot for the on-map mortars too. Let the battle begin...

I too get low FPS in this scenario when going to ground level and scroll through the woods. I would bet that this is because the wind movement of the (many) trees !! Looks like a issue to me, maybe there is room for improvements about the wind movement model of trees because the other two scenarios without that much wind run perfect on highest settings with AA and V-Sync but with shadows turned off on my system. @ Battlefront: Please take a look at the wind movement of trees and the performance issue that comes with it !

@ Normal Dude I have a question to you as the designer of this scenario: The german force, which TO&E (OOB) do they use ? What morale level are they overall ? Are they the "worst" troops you could put up or can you make them much worser with some adjustments ? Are they designed to defend stubborn, could they be designed to route as soon as possible ?

AT guns firing on infantry and giving it position away is a bad thing...should already be fixed by differend cover-arcs. Maybe giving a small cover arc to the AT gun could work, this way they may be see as much as without any command and still dont target a single soldier... Problem is, the tank drives into a "bad" position during replay (WEGO) you have no chance to let your AT gun open up. The AT gun in the demo scenario was firing on my infantry and giving away its position while my tanks still were at the buildings where they were positioned from start on. If it stayed quiet it could have killed a sherman or two but that way i killed it wil MG and HE fire from my tanks.

Now we have the mighty low stone-wall ingame anyway...using solid buildings as cover is for noobs. Ok, maybe you can blame me a bit for this thread. I played a other wargame many hours the last few weeks were you would not expect a 795th Ost Battalion to put up a strong defense against armoured units... I had a greek battalion routing infront of a german tank coy so i may expected the same from the bad-ass 795th.

But what about troops running out of buildings from 2 or 3 HE shells (what actually happened during my playthrough) ? Such a small wall may give good cover against small arms...but 4 tanks have enough HE ammunition to destroy the hole wall 3 times...