Vinnart
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Posts posted by Vinnart
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I agree this would be easier to tell which artillery/mortar one is selecting. Until then, my advice is to have the camera looking toward your force from the enemy perspective when placing artillery fire missions. In this way one can see which gun crew is being highlighted easier for the mission while better being able to see the ground where one wants the artillery to strike. Also, guns are listed in the roster in order of where they are in the order of battle. For example: If 1st platoon has two mortars, and 2nd platoon has two mortars also, going from left to right in the roster 1st platoon’s 1st mortar team will be the first one on the left of the roster. 1st platoon’s 2nd mortar team will be the next one to the right, and so on. There is some order to it.
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I know its all pie in the sky but still it's fun to imagine.
Yes, it certainly is.
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In RT one would want to be able to set a hold order, give commands past that hold order, and release them when he wants,. This allows prior planning and coordinated action while awaiting a art strike to complete or another platoon to finish suppressing a tgt. Similar to he hold icon already in place but it effects all units under one's command (or a group selection) So we can be hunkered down behind a hedgerow and I give a frag order to the platoon and then say either go on my command or in five minutes, whatever. This helps mitigate peoples feeling of a click fest esp with more units.
This sounds like you can do this now by giving an indefinite pause order first. I do it much more in RT, and it helps to give more of a WEGO feel of giving orders. I found a way to give the order as a hotkey so it is easier to give the order first rather than having to click in the GUI. After the indefinite pause is issued I then issue orders, check LOS, move waypoints ect.. Then I release the pause when I want the unit to move. To do this for a platoon I double click to select and issue, then release pause to get them to all to move at once. It is a great way to coordinate movements, and lets one relax for moment to think about the moves before committing.
As far as communication between teammates goes for mission planning, and communicating map areas “Sudden Strike” had a great, easy to use system that if adapted to CM multi HvH would work just as well. In Sudden Strike players can hold a hotkey while clicking on the mini map leaving a small orange marker on the map for a couple of seconds then it would disappear. In this way players could put a few markers in a row to “draw” lines, curves, or pinpoint a single spot. CM does not have a mini map, nor does it need one (just press 8, or 9 camera level), so the marker would appear on the regular map. For CM I could see holding the alt key + another key on the map to create a marker that appears for a few seconds then disappears. Perhaps it could be a colored smoke plume that shoots up and disappears in a few seconds, or a vertical arrow graphic that appears for a few seconds then disappears. The flare idea sounds good too. All the team would be able to see the markers even though they may have unit FoW if playing in "iron" mode. This user-friendly system would allow players to plan during the set up phase, and communicate visually during the game. For example the team leader would like 1st platoon to set up along a road so he clicks along the road leaving the markers “drawing” a line to convey this to the team.
FASTER RT SETUP TIME!
Another big advantage to multi HvH play is that set up would be much, much faster. If each player has only a platoon of the company to set up then games will get started very quickly vs a single person doing all the set up themselves.
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what happens when the roster is a large one, you would be scrolling like a demon to find out where the shots you just heard from the other side of the map were coming from?
I am assuming if I double click on any of those roster units it takes me to them?
Read through the concept thread to see all the features.
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=104982&highlight=roster
The Roster auto scrolls to recent most critical events only, but one can manual scroll too. Clicking on a unit icon selects that unit. Double clicking on it centers the camera on the selected unit. With it one can “see” all around even if the camera is zoomed in, or on camera level 1. The Roster shows all of the important unit info one can only get now by selecting each unit individually. One can glance at it, and decipher the information quickly, and easily because it is graphics based. To test, glance at the graphic and see how quickly you can tell which units are currently out of C2. The concept is sort of like a visual radio that provides C2 from the units to the player.
To read a coop multiplayer concept check this thread out:
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=109832
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It is nice to see there are other “Sudden Strike” players here. That entire player base would definitely be into CM multi HvH play. Being that they sold 2 million copies that is a lot of potential players! It is too bad the developers, Fireglow, dropped the ball with “Sudden Strike 3”. It really is a good case study of how not having good game finding can kill a game especially if it greatest attraction was team play.
As far as communication between team mates goes, if such a mode were to ever come into existence, I agree with Los that a grid can be useful as a permanent fixture for describing areas of the map to each other. “Sudden Strike” did not have that, but the clan I played with came up with a type of our own, however it really was only useful at times. For the most part the system Sudden Strike had built into the game was easier, and more versatile to describe areas of the map to each other so we mainly used that. It was a very good, user friendly system that if adapted to CM multi HvH would work just as well. In Sudden Strike players can hold a hotkey while clicking on the mini map that would leave a small orange marker on the map for a couple of seconds then it would disappear. In this way players could put a few markers in a row to “draw” lines, curves, or pinpoint a single spot. CM does not have a mini map, nor does it need one (just press 8, or 9 camera level), so the marker would appear on the regular map. For CM I could see holding the alt key + another key on the map to create a marker that appears for a few seconds then disappears. Perhaps it could be a colored smoke ploom that shoots up and disappears in a few seconds, or a vertical arrow graphic that appears for a few seconds then disappears. All the team would be able to see the markers even though they may have unit FoW. The system simulates sharing grid coordinates in a very easy, precise way.
Another big advantage to multi HvH play is that set up would be much, much faster. If each player has only a platoon of the company to set up then games will get started very quickly vs a single person doing all the set up themsleves.
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Vin's got a great start there but for RT and a larger number of units it would just not work. Overkill on the information department. The more units the more you have to keep it simple.
I disagree. You really have to read the thread describing how it works and its features, as there is much more to it than just the screen of the actual roster tool I posted here.
http://www.battlefront.com/community...ghlight=roster
The reason it works is that one can get much info by just glancing at it. The key in being able to process more info easily is in being graphic based rather than text base. You don’t read it, you see it.
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YES, especially if behind a shield! I would think they would actually be a harder, smaller target if behind a shield exposing mainly the head vs. a troop on the ground who may have no cover and be exposing more of the body.
The best way to keep them a alive though is to keep them as far back as possible using the range of the MG.
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I play CM mainly WEGO, but do play around with it from time to time RT. I would be more into RT for many of the reasons that have been stated on the thread by others and myself.
The key to enjoying RT is adapting the proper mindset. For me it is like flipping a switch. I enjoy WEGO because I can see all the details. I enjoy RT because I can enjoy not having to worry about every detail. That is the key to it. It is almost a bit liberating not worrying about each and every thing in micromanaging each unit rather just concentrating on the whole. Also, I must say that CM does not control the greatest in RT out of the box. I use a Nostromo keypad, and multi-button mouse, which makes all the difference for fast easy control, but good hotkey use for RT can be set up on the keyboard. If one does not have these I suggest using the top row of the keyboard starting at the letter “Q” for FAST then ‘W” for QUICK and so on left to right ending with SLOW. The next row starting with “A” set for COMBAT commands. The bottom row of keys leave for camera controls. Use the hotkeys as described for the most common commands, and use the SPACEBAR for less used commands. Setting up control like this keeps the eyes on the screen, while making it easier to control hotkeys with the left hand while the right operates the mouse. Controlling the game fluidly makes RT much more enjoyable, and really is essential to control with speed efficiently.
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The Roster solves the situational awareness problem of missing things when the units are out of camera view.
Since Steve says he is a RT player I expect it will only get better with real time.
What I really do not understand is why there is NO support for game finding HvH real time. I know it is not as popular, but not having the support only diminishes the potential it has. Its absolute fullest potential in real time is with multi-multiplayer. I was big into that sort of play with the game “Sudden Strike”, which was hugely successful in the real time genre. The teamwork made it more fun, along with sharing the burden of controlling all the units by ones self. Perhaps someday CM will offer the experience.
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The main thing it is currently missing is support for an easy way to find games HvH. This could be easily solved with adding a live chat room to the forum.
Beyond that, and other improvements for better situational awareness such as the ROSTER concept. http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=104982&highlight=roster
RT is best played as multi-multiplayer being more of a team “sport”. WEGO is more a 1v1 thing. http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=109832
For those wanting to try RT I suggest playing the AI in a small meeting engagement to get the feel of it. The key to enjoy it is to adapt a different mindset than WEGO. Don't worry you are missing every detail. Concentrate more on the whole.
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If one has never been next to a large caliber howitzer firing it really is awesome to feel the power of it! The Earth literally shakes, and the body feels the shock of it going off. Just devastating firepower that puts one in total awe! I can only imagine the terror being on the receiving end.
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Enjoy! Thanks Marco as usual for updating the graphics version.
REMEMBER GUYS THIS WILL ONLY WORK FOR THE LATEST BUILD OF CMBN!
If your text is screwy you are using an incompatible version. Uninstalling the mod, and updating to the compatible version will fix any text oddities.
Now I have to finish CMFI so I can get MG to use the latest version of my own mod
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a stand offering free beer.
Ken, I’m a Guinness man. If you win, you’re buying right?
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Ok all you gamey bastards out there no more moving the camera above level 1 unless ww2 troops had wings so they could fly over the battlefield
I think the game environment will always be unique from reality, and therefore “gamey” from reality. In other words the game can’t be taken out of the game otherwise it would not be a game, but reality instead. -
Another one of my famous typos, with superb proof reading there!
Don’t worry Ken, routing is no longer in the game -
Bah! How could the outcome be BETTER than Victory??? If I hadn't (cough, cough) allowed Bil to destroy my tanks, I wouldn't have been able to suck him into the trap which is my Town Center defense. Like Montgomery, I have pulled the German armor onto myself.
Carry on.
You haven't got that victory yet
, but I am routing for you. I guess I have a soft spot for underdogs. Obvously, destroying some of Bil's tanks with your tanks would BETTER the chances of victory over him killing all of yours within the first 10 min.I must say though that you have done a good job fighting on compensating for your armor losses. The 241 was simply bad pathfinding luck. "After you old chap". "No, you first I insist" so far gets the prize for the most humorous screen shot
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Oh that sounds good. So, you added a hunt order and a target command at the end. Then the HT spotted the gun right away and still fired. Do I have that right? Sounds like that will work for spotted targets but not for area fire.
The HT did not spot the gun. The target order at the end of the HUNT line was for area fire. When the turn started The HT did not move, and area fired between the two buildings. The shell lands at the back of the gun with the explosion knocking the gun out. The HT had LOS between the two building from the start, but did not get a LOS reading becuase it could not see the center of the AS, only part of it. Again I do not think this "gamey"(whatever that means when one is playing a game
, but rather allows targeting on areas where only part of the AS can be seen. -
I find they do not rotate gun to cover arcs all the time making them difficult to use on trucks or halfttracks. Sometimes I give the arc to the rear, and the gun stays forward to the side. So far I haven't had much luck using them, and would never buy any for a QB. I have tried going in reverse all the time, but they don't seem to spot well, and get killed first. Machine guns make short work of them killing crews easy. I am sure I will like the AA tanks much better since rotation is not as much a problem. On trucks, or HT's they are my least favorite unit.
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The graphics version I think is so cool to have in the game I don't know why BF just doesn't include an official version or something similar? At least an option. I especially like how you can keep track of your squad casualty count.
I agree that it greatly improves the soldier stat text making it read easier while making it more interesting. If BF were to include it then there would be no more compatibility problems since it would be already updated with each release. I don't think there is anyone who has used it that would prefer to go back to using the text alone with no graphics. It is just a better system.
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From the 2.1 read me
Bummer, because that means this technique will no longer work. I understand it was done for good reason but I am still bummed that my work around will not work any more.
The example I show below is not gamey, but rather makes LOS possible when it should be in the first place. The half-track clearly should be able to see in-between the buildings, but does not get a LOS reading since it cannot see the center of the action square only part of it. I did Ian’s suggestion giving a HUNT order a few meters forward until I got clear LOS to the center of the AS. When the turn started the 75mm halftrack did not move at all, and fired in between the building landing a round at the back of the AT gun knocking it out. The shot lands right on the crater by the rear AT leg.
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Thanks Martyr for helping people get straight with the animated text mod. It is a great, helpful mod, but no matter how bold I put in the description MUST BE UPDATED WITH EACH PATCH/UPGARADE people do not read it, or take the advice. Now with all the different patches/upgrades, and different builds out there it is getting harder to make sure guys are using the proper compatible version for their version of the game.
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I’ll save an armor critique till the end, but I would have used the armor differently than Ken did if playing as allied. This is not to say I wouldn't have lost any tanks to the Germans, but perhaps the outcome would have been more favorable using a different strategy.
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Thanks Astrocat. I don’t have MG so I can’t check it out. Are the graphics the same as the previous version for CMBN?
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The kicker on the time may be that the map designer added overtime which can be anywhere from a few minutes to as long as 15 min. For your sake Ken I hope this is not the case.
Don’t worry Ken, routing is no longer in the game 
Realistic Infantry formations - would they add realism
in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy
Posted
The type of formation a squad assumes in reality is dictated by the terrain, and likelihood of contact. The same goes for the game, but as others have said splitting the squad is the only way to achieve different formations albeit with a bit more micromanaging. Perhaps the following will help some understand different formations better:
COLUMNS: If you are moving through a gully, or down a road this would be the formation used since the movement is through a narrow pass. The disadvantage as others have also said is firepower is very limited to the front. Columns are used mainly for traveling, but not good for fighting.
LINE: Split your squads with a little space between to achieve a line. This maximizes firepower to the front, and would be good along a ridge, wall, boccage, or for a mass assault. To advance the line one should move in bounding overwatch toward the enemy. Don’t use lines to move toward the enemy when you don’t know where the enemy is. If you walk into an ambush, or a MG the whole squad is vulnerable. Use a wedge instead, which gives a point scout element, and flexibility to switch to a line easily.
WEDGE: This is good for moving though forest, wheat fields, or open ground where enemy contact is likely. Put a scout as the point of the wedge, put alpha and bravo teams on the rear corners of the triangle. When contact is made alpha and bravo move up on line to maximize firepower to the front. The scout takes the initial fire exposing the enemy. If it is an ambush the scout will trip it minimizing casualties. To advance forward once contact is made move the line using bounding overwatch.
VEE: This formation is used more in defensive posture. For ambush often it is more a “L” shape. Put the heaviest weapon at the rear point of the “V” shape. When the enemy enters the kill zone you can hit him from the front and side, or sides simultaneously.
ECHELON right/left: This formation is best when the enemy concentration is either to the left, or the right and will maximize firepower either left, or right. It basically is diagonal line using only one side of a wedge formation.
Hope this helps some understand different formations, and their uses.