DaveDash

Thanks for the feedback. Ill try your new version later. It might pay however to wait for a few more people to test your original version before making too many changes. Some might find it easier than I did. I did screw up by not getting any javelin missiles, but it wouldnt have effected the outcome too much I dont think.

Thanks very much for the reply George. Just to say again, I think probably the main two things that I'd suggest to be improved in future versions are 1) Have the OPFOR assaulting the ambush site disperse into buildings, giving the impression of a heavy battle and a sense of urgency to rescue your guys. 2) Doors/Buildings. Some of the buildings in the game (and this is probably more a CM:SF fault than a designer fault) were just infuriating to navigate. The big building in the North West side of town overlooking the ambush site for example, my guys just spread out on the rooftops of the adjacent buildings and would not move from that spot. Enjoy your trip

well this was quite a fun mission, had a bit of a WW2 feel to it. SPOILERS: Well, I failed hopelessly at this mission. I think my tactics were relatively sound, I was just let down by real poor shooting on behalf of my men. I sent TWO platoons to the west to gain the high ground, and they both were stalled COMPLETELY by the guys defending the hill and the guys in the houses below. I send another platoon east through the forest to provide overwatch for my .. eventual ... assault and they also got pinned down. The biggest thing preventing me from moving forward was ammo. I noticed the poor levels of ammo on my guys way too late, and perhaps I could have re-armed my guys at that Stryker. Eventually though, all my guys ran out of ammo and had a very poor exchange rate with the Syrian forces (almost 1:1 slightly in my favour). This is where I asked for a cease-fire, unable to gain any objectives. I had about 54 minutes left, but without more ammo against fresh enemy reinforcemetns, my efforts would have been futile. Overall pretty cool mission. Pretty intense fights, while your ammo lasts that is. Given limited ammo, inexperianced troops (I watched my entire platoon unload at a guy in the open and take about a minute to kill him) and constant enemy reinforcements im not sure how to win this one. Also, shouldnt the recon platoon be one of the first on the scene? Edit - oh yeah, it was cool to see the enemy move to take defensive positions. It's eerily quiet at the start, but once they're in position, all hell breaks loose. [ December 06, 2007, 06:10 AM: Message edited by: DaveDash ]

Well yes. The lethality is probably correct, but our little AI guys don't have much in the way of self-presevation.

I think the lethality of weapons against units in building and out HAS in fact been way over-modelled, but perhaps for a game sake point of view. It was one of my biggest beefs with games like OFP too. I don't think players have the time to go through 4 hour battles, although the option on a 'Super-Realism' difficultly level would be nice for those of us who do want to see this kind of thing. Mind you I'm only talking about battles with cover or long distance involved. House clearing operations seem to be about right, based on what I've read in Iraq. They are highly lethal and unless one side backs out usually over pretty quick.

Well I went back and finished it - total U.S. victory. 10 U.S. KIA, 16 wounded, 1 armoured vehicle lost (the ambushed stryker). After taking up positions in the north east I was lucky enough to get 1st and 2nd mech reinforcements, along with the two tanks. I moved 1st mech up along highway 5 bypassing the bridge area and cleared out the ambush area, 2nd mech and the two tanks demolished the area north of the bridge with HE, killing most of the enemy there. The tanks drew some RPG fire and the rest of the attacking force made short work of any RPGers. There were a TON of enemy forces IN the ambush site that didnt stand a chance against Bradley HE. Perhaps in future versions of the scenario there should be less of these guys, or they should take positions surrounding the ambush site instead. I mean they know your ambushed men arn't going anywhere, and while your guys are still alive there you may be prone to make mistakes trying to rescue them alive and in time. [ December 05, 2007, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: DaveDash ]

Great. Thanks very much Steve!

Actually I wish the casualtie rates were more accurate. For me, it would make firefights far more intense and engaging. Even Military 'sims' like OFP - WGL5 firefights are over far too quickly. It's been a gripe of mine about combat sims for many year snow.

Yes CM1 definately had sound contacts. Armour came up as a generic grey vehicle and infantry as a question mark, from memory.

More likely the high powered video card would be bottlenecked by the slower CPU as it made its calculations. If the CPU can only do enough calculations to display 15 FPS then it would do so. One example is to load up a game such as Medieval Total War 2 and put 20,000 men on the battlefield, each with individually tracked morale based on facing, health, blah blah blah. Even if your video card is top notch, each moment of calculation will be displayed smoothly, and camera movement will be smooth, but even couple of seconds the action will freeze as the CPU calculates what it is doing next. A game like CM:SF would do the same thing. The turn will take 60 game seconds regardless of processing power I imagine, but 60 game seconds may be as long as 3 real minutes if your CPU is struggling to calculate everything in time. Anything more it will probably crash. Maybe it's worth testing by creating some Battalion sized battles in Urban terrain on two different specced PC's to see what happens.

Not just Strykers, as you can see from my AAR in the other thread they wreck havock upon my troops that have occupied buildings from some pretty long distances. The dilemma with CM:SF in its current state with extremely low Stryker and Infantry survivability is you have to figure out what you're more willing to lose, infantry or vehicles. I tend to dismount infantry to covered overwatch positions straight away. Keeping them in vehicles will just get them killed. Then using the 'fast' command move one suicide vehicle up roads and then dart it behind cover, to draw as much RPG fire as possible. Usually works pretty well.

I got a few CTDs upon turn completion and various other stages of the game. I noticed that the page file for this laptop im playing on was set to 2GB-4GB (2GB of ram) with about 5GB HDD free and about 1GB of RAM free most of the time. I set it to system managed size and it seems the game runs a lot smoother now and I havn't had a CTD since. My theory on the matter is the game being forced to use slower HDD memory instead of RAM caused it to spaz out from time to time. Something to consider.

I have a question. Does sound have any impact on spotting or is it totally LOS based? Often I have wondered if my infantry units in a adjacent room have a chance to 'hear' enemy units next door, same goes with armoured vehicles. I remember in CMx1 you could 'hear' units at night, and I havn't worked out if this feature is in CMx2 yet.

In that case - if you want to level a bunch of buildings, I assume its better to use "armour" ?(mind my commonwealth spelling) I've just been using general, thinking they were some sort of general purpose round. Cheers

Actually Steve I think both are unconstructive, but one is definately less banworthy than the other. Perhaps if #1 said: "This is what I'd like to see improved...." then it would be more constructive IMO. I've seen this with a lot of games in a lot of game forums. There is generally a lot of 'resistance' when developers try and do something new, and very rarely they get it right. The big difference however is posters that go "Well I'd like to see it fixed this way" and those that just bitch. One saving grace with many other games is they have been highly modable, so the community has been able to fix many problems for the developers until they can come up with a proper solution. I don't know how modable CM:SF is or even if they are any tools, but it may be one thing that helps revitalise the game.

I thought I'd give this a bump to see BFC's thoughts on the matter, now that Steve is back. From a game point of view, I'm quite happy to have the mechanics be what they are now, but being a realism fan, having RPG-7's toast your squads and strykers ruins the 'suspension of disbelief' for me a little. I'm not asking for super invincible U.S. troops, just a more accurate reflection of U.S. survivability focus when it comes to vehicle design. Im also not too fussed if something like this is waaay down the priority list

Yeah I look forward to playing again in 1.05. The only scenario design feature I question however is the skill level of the OPFOR. I know they're supposed to be crack insurgents but they seem a little 'too' good. Reminds me of playing counter-strike against bots who headshot you across the map with the AK Anyway, check out the first half of my AAR in the tactics thread. [ December 04, 2007, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: DaveDash ]

Ah - well then, F1 99-02 let you review the last 15 seconds of the race. NHL 07/08 on the Xbox360 allows you to go into instant replay mode and review the last X amount of time (can't remember) of the match from different angles, etc. There are games that do it, but their calculations etc are not as complex as CM:SF.

Well I know for a fact Allied Force, Falcon 4.0, and Falcon 3.0 had ACMI modes that you could hop into in game and review to your hearts content. Well Falcon 3.0 might have been after the mission, but I'm fairly sure Falcon 4.0 ACMI mode was real time. [ December 04, 2007, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: DaveDash ]

Here was my attack plan based on your map: PHASE 1 (RED): 1st Platoon Secure overwatch positions. PHASE 2 (GREEN): 2nd Platoon to move through 1st Platoons secured positions and clean out the town, taking overwatch positions over the town and eliminate as many enemies as possible PHASE 3 (BLUE): 1st Platoon to move up and re-inforce 2nd Platoons position, and provide overwatch for 2nd Platoon to gain footholds around the target building. The reason for going up the eastern side was simple: 1) Good engagement ranges where my forces are superior. 2) Lack of third platoon to do any 'pinning' work. Seemed better to be to drive what limited forces I had together as a unit. 3) Seemed to be a path of much less resistance. 4) Do what the enemy (designer) least expects you to. Im currently finishing up PHASE 2 with no vehicles lost, but 1st Platoon has lost about 10 men, which is far too many in my books, and 2nd Platoon has lost about 3. PHASE 1 1:39: Infantry moved up to take overwatch positions at green 3 and house on other side of the road. Phase 1 attack plan, clear big building overwatching both roads. 1st Battalion HQ radios in and reports mortar landing on their position. All supporting units with them have seemingly dissappeared from the building, routed or surrended HQ doesn't know. They are left by their own. 1:37 RPG fire opens up on trapped units, destroying one HUMVEE and the stranded Stryker. Styker Command unit escapes into building. 1:36: Rifle squads 1 & 2 move to take target buildings. Even though we know the enemy is there, they have maintained fire discipline so far. Wishing for a third squad. Speed is essential as our guys are in danger, but there is no use getting everyone killed. 1:35: 1st Platoon Command Stryker races forward up the road to try and lure enemy fire. It runs over an IED which was detonated slightly too early, the speed of the Stryker saving it. However it took wheel damage, and painfully slowly limps back to safety. Still no enemy fire, perhaps Objective Building A is empty? Stranded 1st Battalion CO unit spot enemy platoon approaching from the palmed area to the south of their position, and radio in mortar fire to surpress and break up the attack. They are toast by themselves. 1:34 The attacking enemy platoon wound 1st Battalion CO, there are now only two U.S. troops able to fight and defend themselves at the Ambush site. The wounded Stryker limps back to safety and 1st Squad, hearing the gunfight in the distance, prepares to leapfrog forward. Objective building A must be cleared. 1:33 Radio silence from 1st Battalion HQ. Gunfighting can still be heard from the Ambush site however, so some U.S. troops must live to fight on. An RPG is fired at 1st Squad as they enter their Stryker and they dive for cover. No one seems to have seen where it came from. 1:32 1st Squad scramble into their Stryker to continue the attack on Objective Building A, loading two wounded from the RPG attack into the Stryker in the process. 2nd Squad engage enemy units but the trained guriellas dissappear from view, not wanting to get engaged in a firefight with U.S. forces at long range. Fighting can still be heard at the ambush site. 1:30 U.S. mortar fire lands erratically around the attacking enemy forces, of which there appear to be many. 1st Squad moves to clear a nearby building to establish a new forward base, 2nd squat spot technicals moving troops to better defensive positions and engage them. 1:29 Some U.S. forces from 1st squad foolishly try to run around the FRONT of the building they are assaulting, and enemy units from around Objective Building A open up and unleash hell. A hail of RPGs of bullet fire cuts down the three exposed members of 1st squad and reduces their squad to 4 men, however, with their positions now revealed the overwatch Strykers and 2nd squad unload their firepower on the enemies. Most are exposed on rooftops and are cut down. 1:27 1st Squad report they are having trouble breaching the rear of the building - it appears to be barricaded. Command moves Strykers up in front of the building to provide covering fire and pop smoke so 1st Squad can breach the exposed front. Most of the enemy units around Objective Building A seem to have been cut down, but some may yet remain. 1:26 There is silence from the Ambush Site, but no matter, the bodies of the U.S. soldiers must be recovered and survivors, if any, checked for. 1st Squad under the cover of smoke succesfully clears its building overlooking Objective Building A. 2nd squad prepares to assault Objective building A to gain a clear overwatch position over the battlefield. 2nd Platoon arrives on the scene. 1:24 2nd squad rearms and equips in it's Stryker, not before taking a casualty from an AK burst at over 400m. The enemy seems to be excellent marksmen 1:21 2nd Squad gains objective building A. 2nd Platoon move through the safety of the buildings to the eastern road and prepare to move through 1st Platoons position. No way are they crossing that bridge, especially with than ominous looking technical parked on the opposing end. 1:19 2nd Squad is hit by an RPG from the buildings to the north, and takes 3 wounded, severly decreasing their effectiveness. 1:14 Shots are exchanged across the rooftops of the cityscape, with insurgent forces firing and hiding, making it difficult for U.S. forces to engage them. 1:08 2nd Platoon finally move through 1st Platoons position, completing Phase 1 and beginning Phase 2. PHASE 2 1:07 2nd Platoon, 1st Squad move to take Objective Building B which will enable them to provide overwatch and covering fire for the rest of 2nd Platoon. Enroute to their objective building however 3 members of the squad are badly wounded by a lone AK gunmen firing at them from down an alley. Their Stryker providing overwatch cannot seem to get a bead on the assaliant. 1:06 2nd Platoon, 1st Squad gains a foothold in the building, setting up a CCP inside the botton floor. They spot an ATGM team in the neighbouring building and quickly dispatch them. 1:05 2nd Platoon's other Strykers move up to better support 2nd Platoon, 1st Squad. The soldiers move to the roof to take a peak around while the HQ element moves nearby to report enemy positions. 2nd Platoon, 1st Squad takes heavy enemy fire from all directions once on the roof and is pinned down. Supporting Stryker elements seem confused as to where enemy fire is coming from and do nothing to surpress them. There appears to be some hesitation due to insurgents using civilians and shields. ..More to come... [ December 04, 2007, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: DaveDash ]

-please delete- [ December 04, 2007, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: DaveDash ]

I've currently given up on this scenario until 1.05 comes up. The scenario looks awesome but until some issues with the game are fixed, Urban Combat in WEGO is more an exercise in frustration than fun. Notice the Stryker, who has its weapon pointed AT the enemy, sits for an entire 60 seconds doing nothing while the super-elite-crack enemy troops waste my entire squads. The only enemies I have killed in this map have been through area targetting - i.e. FORCING my strykers to target enemies they can PLAINLY see already, wasting tons of ammo in the process. During WEGO most of my units sit around doing nothing while the enemy units tear apart my forces with unrealistic accuracy. Are the OPFOR set to crack while my units set to noob or something? There's lots of 400m+ AK kills against my units who are exposed for a fraction of a second, whereas my units who are supposed to have the advantage of optics etc can't seem to hit the broad side of a barn. In this mission I had one wounded guy with an AK about 200m away take out 3 men in a squad as soon as they dismounted from a Stryker and ran roughly 3m to the cover of a building. WTF? The other annoying thing about this scenario, which I noticed a little bit in Hammertime also, is that the doors to buildings either don't work at all, or are at illogical places. Im guessing most buildings would have an entrance facing the street, but in this scenario some buildings don't even seem to have doors to get in. Some do have doors, but they dont work, and your troops blindly run into harms way to get through some other door about 30m away. Anyway again this seems like another could-be excellent scenario once some core issues are addressed, but it seems to challange revolves around mostly having super human OPFOR troops and trying to fight more against the engine than the guys you're meant to be killing. [ December 04, 2007, 06:13 AM: Message edited by: DaveDash ]

Hmm have you seen vehicles try and navigate when in close proximity in normal time? Image the inaccuracies at speed. They'd end up like the old C&C harvesters who went out of their way to go through the enemies base before returning to yours.

I have to agree with Steve actually about time compression. I remember playing Falcon 3.0 and if you'd speed up time all sorts of weird AI behaviour would occur. Don't really want that in CM type games at all, to be honest. Interesting to hear about the limitations of precalculating. It seems what has been done now is in fact more optimal than the past. Cheers.

I've heard the I'm a consumer and thus should be entitled to X. Fact of the matter is, video games are actually pretty damn cheap. I don't know what you pay in the U.S. but a PC title in NZ ranges rom $80 to $120 bucks. I understand they're even cheaper in the U.S., which is where the big market is. These days you really pay for what you get, I wouldn't actually mind paying more for a computer game (and keep the console games cheap) and got some real quality stuff.