vincere
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Posts posted by vincere
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In staying on Topic.. The T-34 is vastly superior to the Sherman, its very fast if moving out and you can quickly lose site of them, if they are being used tactically, and sneaky. The main difference I have seen between the Normandy and Russian front so far is.
1, Allied tanks have to be played very well. Sherman's and T-34's are well suited for medium range engagements.. of up to 1000m but after that, even the PzIV can still kill them pretty effectively of ranges around 1500m. The only saving grace for the allies was the Bocage, but the Btits, around the Caen area.. forget about it..
Russian T-34 as far as I have seen and played can survive some good hits from the front except from Panthers. Again the Pz. IV can still penetrate the front of the T-34 but as far as I have seen, or experienced these have been within 1000m. Most of my hits on T-34 at ranges of over 1000m have been side Turret, Hull penetrations with others from around 850m penetrating the front.
2. Russian T-34/85 can kick your ass in a heart beat.. Although again the Germans will find comfort at engagements of 1000-1200m or more having an effective penetration value.
All of this I am sure you already know, and I am sure someone has already created a table. This blurb has just been from my experience with campaigns and few head to head missions, and some test missions I have created.
The T-34/85 is a very effective tank and in numbers are very lethal, however if your opponent is clever, or you have on par tank numbers, the Germans will have the advantage.. however there are always variables...
In my Opinion the Panther is probably still the best tank of WWII, but that's my opinion so don't hate me.. LOL.
The Allies in Normandy have some other very nice effective pieces.... Achilles, Hellcat, and of course the Dragonfly's. The Russian SU-122 is also a very lethal weapon and will tear you a new one.. at ranges equal to pretty much any game range your involved in.. Even tested a long range battle, open plain.. high grass with few defilades.. hard to see them.. and they can wreak havoc at 1800m and one even killed a Panther side hull at 2100m. lower side hull, but hey the Panther was even moving. Anyways love Battlefront, and there are so many versed and knowledgeable people within this community, its pretty cool.
Semper Fi, and happy Holidays.
This is pretty much what I'm finding. Though crew skill, and tactics to get the side shots and a little luck play a role. I've found that close up T34/85 are easily equal to my panthers. And some of them take a many penetrations before succumbing.
SU-122. Grrhh, having to use tactics to take on these beasts.
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I just assumed that Drones don't routinely have microphones and what we heard was what was happening at the drone operator site- arty sending some hurt.
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Yes.
Yes it is from the Stackpole series of books.
Thanks, it's in the post to me :-)
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Vince, hi,
Here we go..
http://www.allworldwars.com/Small-Unit-Actions-During-German-Campaign-in-Russia.html
Dry stuff I am afraid... but very much the real deal. Will be out there in book form too.
Also..
Panzer Warfare on the Eastern Front by Hans Schaufler.
Nothing special.. but each chapter is a good account of some battalion or company sized action.
All the best,
Kip.
Thank Kip, both of those look good. Started read the web resource already.
But I still love books for bed-time, and travelling :-)
Thanks Mord, yes like those. Another Theatre but I really enjoyed "Steel Inferno: I Panzer Corps in Normandy."
Blazing 88's: Amazon have two authors with different books titled "Infantry Aces", is you recommendation FRANZ KUROWSKI ?
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Mord can I use your thread to ask for recommendations for books on tactical level for the German or Soviet side...
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Presumably they're empty. Extra fuel tanks would be dropped off before combat, not so much for fire hazard but because if they get perforated by bullets and shrapnel they'd be useless anyway.
Empty fuel tanks blow bigger as it's the fumes that ignite and burn not the liquid.
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IRAQ related- but very good insights into modern operations and tactical combat the most difficult terrain of all: Urban warfare.
House to House by David Bellavia. Awesome book about Fallujah, and really surprised me how many casualties his platoon took and they still fought on.
No True Glory by Bing West. Fallujah again but gives the strategic, operational and wider tactical account and analysis. Very good reading too.
I searched Amazon today for combat accounts.
Didn't find anything about the current conflict that appealed but this looks like it covers some interesting aspects of the history of the Region:
Where the Iron Crosses Grow; Robert Forczyk
The Blurb:
"The Crimea has been the scene of conflict throughout its history. First occupied by the Russians in the 18th century it was the scene of the Crimean War, and was drawn into the Russian Civil War, as well as World War II. Today it remains a much disputed region with the Crimea at the center of ongoing tensions between East and West. Throughout World War II the Crimea was a microcosm of the more general war on the Eastern Front, reflecting the ebb and flow of fortunes of that conflict. It was a crucible that saw first Soviet and then German armies surrounded, overwhelmed, and then destroyed. The nature of the fighting in the Crimea was unusual for the Eastern Front, with naval forces playing an important role, as the Crimea's position in the Black Sea gave rise to a major role for naval supply, amphibious landings, and, ultimately, evacuation. However, in other ways it was more characteristic of the Eastern Front, and the fighting for and occupation of the region saw the same level of atrocity and ethnic cleansing commonplace throughout the war in the East, with each side reaching the depths of barbarity in their treatment of the civilian population. Based on extensive new archival research, this incredible narrative history by acclaimed historian Robert Forczyk sheds new light on this vital aspect of the Eastern Front that has not been covered in English before."
I think I will pull the trigger on this one.
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Things will get really interesting when cheap hardware (sensors, processors, etc.) and continuously improving open-source designs mean the layman can make guided missiles in his garage. Free image recognition software can already allow cameras to be programmed to move to follow something like a human face. Rockets are already produced in the garages of Gaza residents by Hamas and its supporters. Put some of these things together and make the plans freely available and guided missiles could be as ubiquitous as the cheap quadcopter drones seen today. I have no doubt that we will see the AK-47 of guided missiles soon.
That would be scary doom times for air-travel.
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True exo-skeletons for maneuver infantry are still a ways off. Problem is not so much the mechanical engineering of the exo itself, but power source. Until someone invents a compact, lightweight power source that can power an exo for at least a full day of maneuver and combat without recharging, exos aren't going to be much use to the forward rifleman. No point in putting on an exo that gives you the ability to carry an additional 25 kg, if the exo + battery weighs 30kg...
There are some intermediate "wearable tech" solutions that aren't exos as such, but do have the potential to increase the effective strength and endurance of infantry on foot to a degree. For example, the U.S. Army is experimenting various "intelligent" body suits that monitor things like body temp, blood sugar, hydration, etc.; information that can be used to optimize solider performance, especially in difficult environmental conditions. Not a game-changer, but the potential gains from this type of system can be greater than you might at first think.
Where we'll see true exos first is off the line of contact in service and support roles. Here, the need for a strong (and therefore large and heavy) power source is less of a liability. For example, the U.S. Army is experimenting with an exo that allows a single soldier to manipulate 155mm shells (weighing nearly 50 kg) with ease. This could dramatically reduce the size of gun crews. Other applications to e.g., ordnance handling, vehicle maintenance and repair, etc. are pretty obvious.
Imagine, for example, a tank recovery crew equipped with exos attached by cable to the engine of their recovery vehicle for power. With the exos they might have multiple times the strength of an ordinary human, enabling them to accomplish tasks such as recovering a bogged tank or repairing a damaged track much faster than would otherwise be possible.
There is a huge push in civilian and military funding for better power sources. It's a difficult technical issue; but I believe the demand and need from the proliferation of electronic will crack it.
You first use scenario of exos sounds logical. And I suppose the SF guys will be in first.
Additional factors will be advances with new materials. Lighter, engineered for efficiency and possible multiple power sources.
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Tech news make it seem that Exo-skeletons are not far off now.
These initially be able to give the infantry vastly more mobility and firepower with broadly the same mobility of feet.
2nd and 3rd generations will likely up-armour.
That said- tanks will evolve too; but may look very different
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IRAQ related- but very good insights into modern operations and tactical combat the most difficult terrain of all: Urban warfare.
House to House by David Bellavia. Awesome book about Fallujah, and really surprised me how many casualties his platoon took and they still fought on.
No True Glory by Bing West. Fallujah again but gives the strategic, operational and wider tactical account and analysis. Very good reading too.
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Great Pics, but had to chuckle at all the US guys packing their Linford Christie lunch boxes
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they have a psychological effect... crushing people into pulp under their tracks.. sometimes not with an immediate lethal effect... food for thoughts
They for sure can have a huge psychological effect. I reckon the race of protection and anti-tank missile will continue.
With the revolution of new materials from ground-breaking science armour can get a whole lot stronger per kg.
I think the South African's had a fair sized tank battle in Angola.
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Thanks Kip, and guys for supportive replies.
I was thinking about it earlier and remembered that a decent number of battle maps will be needed, along with player to accept abstraction from campaign map to ground battle map.
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It's a BMP-3, so it's not Ukrainian.
Ah, thanks. Ok so a good chance of surviving....
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The number off people capable of running something like that well is vanishingly small. The number of them that have the time may be zero.
Without something like what was being developed for CMBB, or some serious interphase game sold be Battlefront it would have to be a simple Operational layer.
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Hard to say - I don't know what active defence animations look like, so the BMP is either toast or that explosion was an ERA or active protection system going off, in which case the BMP likely survived.
I cant see active protection on that.
My guess- that's a Ukrainian BMP that is toast
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I remember that attempt at a campaign (assuming it was the same one you are recollecting). I was to be the Dutch forces commander. Real damn shame it fell apart because it looked like a hell of alot of fun.
It's the same one, and I remember your name from it.
It did look like a good balance of playability and realism.
At the time I considered trying to take on the Game-master role but had a lot on.
I reckon small number of committed amiable and understanding types is the key.
With Black Sea, one could start with just the Donbas as a smaller pilot run.
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Ofcourse a meta campaign would be great. And , yes, while Black Seas scope is smaller it doesn't Change the Basic Problem of a meta campaign:
You'll need to implement the Basics, and I don't think that Battlefront is interested enough to commit so many resources.
But damn, it would be awesome.
Yeah, I still have hope that one day they will see the light. Not for Black Sea though.
Back when Shock Force was new there was a campaign organised that was shaping up to look great with somebody acting as a game-maker and umpire. Sadly, he had to pull out last minute and it fell apart.
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Black Sea offers a unique CM opportunity for a all encompassing meta campaign for at least 3 reasons.
1. The operational area and forces involved are smaller and more 'manageable'. Something like the VASSL formats could limit one to Donbas region only. And even Ukraine in Separatists only.
2. Ground to Air in now modelled.
3. Meta Campaign is the CM holy grail and could be the ultimate cool, fun, challenge.
counting... how long before any register interest??
Come sign up lads, and any ladies.
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Thing is I like CM because it's regular army focus, but there's a real place for SOF in the fighting line up of OOB.
Yes, I know SOF are historically operational assets, usually taken for jobs such as Recon. But recent decade or so has seen them increasingly involved in 'major' battles to compliment regular units.
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I would anticipate that by using Chechens and significant numbers of other Russian ethnic groups would strengthen the Ukraine recruitment and resolve.
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Again part of the diplomatic dance, Western European powers, UK, France, Germany, et al, do not want to directly confront Russia about this, because they would then be forced to actually DO something about it, i.e. more sanctions or military aid and there is very little domestic popular support for either.
I think this is a major driver. So the politicians have been reserved, leaving the media with not a much to say.
That said, much western media is so 'lazy' these days that some probably buy the uncertainty by Russian denials.
I doubted the West would be interested in Ukraine joining Nato, but like you say Steve, Putin's actions are working against him.
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I expect that is a universal problem.
Agreed, but gee some of previous doctrine and equipment decisions were so blatantly 'wrong' on fundamental levels.
T34/85 performance
in Combat Mission Red Thunder
Posted
SU-152's were doing better than my panthers at a long range duel (front to front). Will have to check exact range but around 2000m. So I've been trying close ambushes.
Can a PS team take 152s out on front armour?
I have two green Panther crews in my current battle; both miss wildly and bailed early.
One veteran crew vs T34/85 is awesome at 1500m.
Regular crews are doing ok. I lost 4 one turn trying to close ambush T34/85s. So from here on I'm trying to keep some distance.