Liam

Interesting subject Thanks for the info Ev. Goes to show you that 50 guys with Rifles are better than 2 or 3 guys with Machine Guns. Especially if the 50 guys are creative in the way they use what they have? So MPPs don't seem entirely accurate to me on the level that SC makes them. Just because you've raped the World over 3 Xs it doesn't have more trucks, tanks, and horses for all the men you can field. Slowly it may be converted!!! [ June 19, 2004, 06:04 AM: Message edited by: Liam ]

I'd like to a see a message as Allies when I reach Intel Level 4 that says, "You've Cracked Enigma! Good Job Sir~!"

That's really reality. The Luftwaffe never revealed the location of the Normandy Invasion Force... That MASSIVE Build up Much of War is confusion, just like when you're in the trenches and shoot one of your men, Friendly Fire cause it's hard to distinguish enemy, your own men from the others, civilian, who is who... what is what... Just because you've got a fighter 3 hexes from the frontline, doesn't mean you know the precise Strength, Experience, and Name of the enemy unit and more importantly LOCATION Fog of War, is an old saying. Because you're blind and can't see anything until you're right on top of it. You might make out a shadow or have an idea but you don't know 'everything' until you're right on top of the situation. Part of the Problem with SC is that knowing 'everything' promotes trenchwarfare. Being a litte bit confused sometimes, it was it the exciting fast paced reorganization that really goes along with Modern Warfare. A guy might decide to move these Units to a different part of the front to do something evil and though you may have an idea of what he is doing you get confused, locked up, you end up facing a Force much superior to your own and you didn't plan on it or you didn't bring what the grunt of your force it's off busy in the wrong place... .<Kursk, Tunisia '43, Stalingrad>, you don't know to you'll commit and you find you commited your troops to their doom... Just like in Real WW2 SC original only reflects this in hunting for empty cities to occupy really. Once the force is spotted you know what it's next move is.. [ June 17, 2004, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Liam ]

Yes DOWing the USA was the part that killed the U-Boats. That's really gave the Atlantic Merchant Marine a Buffer from the scourge of the wolfpacks. While we're at it, U-Boats operating too close to US Waters should raise USA War Readiness. Though also provide a Mucho bonus to smacking up UK MPPs since much of the UK's supplies came from the USA. U-boats early both in WW1 and WW2 really damaged the UK...

Yes DOWing the USA was the part that killed the U-Boats. That's really gave the Atlantic Merchant Marine a Buffer from the scourge of the wolfpacks. While we're at it, U-Boats operating too close to US Waters should raise USA War Readiness. Though also provide a Mucho bonus to smacking up UK MPPs since much of the UK's supplies came from the USA. U-boats early both in WW1 and WW2 really damaged the UK...

A majority of Armies in WW2 early on especially weren't very mobile. If Germans possessed lots of Mobile technology then why is when I watch those Fall Weiss Films they're using Horses-Bycycles-and whatever else they can find to get them to the front. As far as movement is concerned with Infantry and tanks, there are two dinstinct categories of Armor. Heavy medium, Offensive Armor. Light, Paperthin vulnerable kind. Infantry were naturally supporting Heavy and Medium armor<behind it to protect if from enemy Sappers and to resupply-fix-recon for it fully, etc...> Even most Paperthin armor was either troop transport or Recon vehicles that moved to fast to get a fix on. So if you make Mech Infantry that can out travel Usual Armored units<make them pay for doing it> if a Mechanized unit not seeing the enemy walks into an Ambush it's dead... No matter how fast and how far it could travel. It's just the tactical qualities in SC allow for too much to be seen. Just exact a Heavy Heavy Toll for making that grave mistake. Offroad Tanks suck.. On Road they're fast.

People also tend to be missing something here, German Heavy Armor towards the end of WW2 was based on stopping Hordes of Soviet Armor on the Eastern Front. Almost every new design was inspired by the Edge in Russian Armor. These Huge Juggernauts weren't for offenses anymore, they were for enemy tank destruction. Sorta like Mobile Artillery of sorts. What their long Range performance really matters is unimportant when you can kill 20 Enemy Tanks to even out the fact that your Nation Can't produce 20 Xs the times of your enemy. So the idealogy there wasn't bad. You could almost put all this under 1 Category of Tech. Ideology of Warfare... Heavy Armored Warfare : Or Numerical Superiority : ETC>>>

give me Victory or give me death

ev, very indepth and very realistic assessment of armor/mechanization/infantry in roles in WW2. The concepts you brought up are ones that Generals or Chiefs had to trudge over when putting together an armored force for combat. I certianly hope Hubert is reading and taking notes on your expertise in the truth about Technology-Army Composition-moreover Grand Tactical Strategy. The tech is is exactly how it should be applied to mobile/mechanized/armored units I played WW2Online a lot... One of the most realistic WW2 Simulators in the World IMO. The shootemup' attitude was there, but not the winning factor. People would roll out these slow Panzer 3s and 4s out into the battlefield. Staple was the Heavy Heavy armored Frog British Tanks that could withstand any sort of Panzer Assualt without a flanking manuever or 88-Ju-He-111 assualt. However what was the Grand Strategy the Winning Strategy was the staple infantry. Safe transport, safe Filler... They protected the Armor, their speed was essential. Fast Trucks, like the Opel Blitz driven by a proffessional driver again and again and the total support for the Armor was what made Victory possible. In many combat situations we'd overdo the armor, with 10-15 pieces of Heavy Panzer 3s camping a Base but the problem would be is the enemy Sappers would blow them up, that or some sort of Enemy Air Mission. Having lighter Tanks were Essential and Lighter Fighting Vehicles. Like the 232s, Panzer IIs.. I'd find that I'd rack up 10 Xs more kills in a machine that travels 60 MPH than 30 MPH because speed was the essence of warfare when you have to travel 50-100 miles to do combat and get the armor to where it can do the maximum damage. We'd probe with our light armor the lines, to find holes to punch through smash the Heavier tanks just launching off when they're vulnerable, killing off the mass Infantry, and anti-tank... Much like you describe Russian Steppe Combat. Even at times I'd flank with some 20MM cannon hammer a Heavy Tanks rear or Tracks, sacrifice a few light vehicles than come in with Airpower or heavier ATGs. It was like a fluid dance and when everyone does their job right Blitzkrieg does come down to some essentials. Speed, Flanking manuevers<always hitting your enemey brom behind, cutting off supply, the heavy use of AirPower... Though as in this game Airpower is overpowered it should be moderated to make Mechanization/ Armor / Infantry / Air to make a fluid action of conquoring rather than Chess pieces lined up and smack smack with land, then kill with air

ev, the the halftracks I know of mostly see mostly in the films and hear of were off-road Artillery-antitank towing machines by the Germans. Support vehicles with heavy armament would be closer to being a really really light tank aye? Or just a jeep/trunk/armored car with lots of firepower the Germans had lots of light armor. paper thin panzers Is IIs 232s great recon vehicles, fast, sometimes an MG proof armored box on wheels is deadly. i imagine in all hell of war, you have the larger vehicles engaging the other larger ones, medium vs medium, light vs light, and so forth. most of it has to be made up of what's affordable and in great quantity and in WW2 early most of it was light armor and aimed more towards speed. I think the dreaded Panthers on up were a break away from that original recipe, great firepower armament and too expensive and too few to win wars In any case, Mech infantry represents speed, and getting the men there safely, more than anything? todays modern armies are all mechanized...so whatever lessons learned they've been adopted Universally.. Safety first...Not just trucks and jeeps and bikes... Armored Personal Carriers to 'some degree' were around in WW2 I know of 1 brit and 1 german design but not of any others nor the #s employed [ June 07, 2004, 05:51 AM: Message edited by: Liam ]

Interesting information!!!! I always heard the Japanese were fanatical and would outrun their supply giving their own Blitzkrieg style in the Pacific. It worked a long long longggggggggg way.... you'd have to say for the low cost of their own lives they conquored a Massive amount of Real Estate. Though I think a majority of that jungle was useless. Hardly like European Industrial Sectors. In the end they were stopped in the Coral Sea, no? That and the logistics of being spread out so far, and so thin. Much like the Germans themselves in Russia and leaving the Western Front open to the Allies. I heard of a case too<if this is Karma> where a bunch of Japanese were eaten by Crocodiles during one of the Jungle Battles. I'm not sure the precise number but it was in the thousands... Very freakie deakie. the figure in my mind was something like 5,000 out of 6,000 men

"" Lowers head for a moment of brief silence ""

Well, it was Goering who said to his Fuhrer back up the panzers let me use the Luftwaffe to kill BEF and French at Dunkirk North Africa was short of supply, Hitler never recognized this, how much of it was his fault, dunno. Easily the Germans could've taken out Egypt with what Rommel wanted cut off a Vital Artery for the Brits However! Hitler forcing the 6th Army to stay and die was foolish. His constant need to save Mousillini's Screwups like a big baby boy that needed his big brother to fight all his battles for him. Finally the execution of an able Commander Rommel in France. I'd of left him there regardless, and any Good Leader would have, he was not loyal to Hitler but he was to Germany and he would have been attentive when the Invasion came... Hitler was completely braindead. In France... He let us Buildup the way we did and for that you can see for his meddling to be one of the worst Leaders, strategically of WW2. You have to also remeber he DOWed the Most Economically Powerful Nation in the World in 1941 right after Barbarossa to aid nails to his coffin... The list is pretty much endless and you can't say he's truly a General but he liked pretend to be one sometimes

Some yes. Some in Russia too I wouldn't mind to see corp size Free Euro Unit along with perhaps 1 free French. IN fact, if you evacuate a certian # of French from France to England maybe raising the morale and French belief in the English to 1 Army size in England and perhaps under De Gaulle?

Well, most become fanatical when you invade their Nation. The Russians payed in the Tens of Millions to Germany. The Germans themselves lost relatively a larg number for a Westernized Nation in WW2. In Germany and Russia during their Dark days, women and young boys served. I think in Finland the same sort of theory applies, they were not going to sit and stand for Russian aggression. Especially become like the Poles/Baltics Had Finnish Forces been supplied by Germany what is the limits on their range? What you stated is an opinion. I stated factual history of the Winter War. Finns were well supplied [during] the war. Finland had no intention of invading Russia, as they knew a prolonged war would lead to a defeat for them. The Finns held their border, and while they held they were supplied. After the cease fire there weren't as many donations by citizens, so supplies thinned out. But if conflict started again than they would've been resupplied. In Reply To Fubarno. The Finns weren't just diehards, they were downright crazy. The Finns didn't have anti-tank weapons so they'd run around tanks until a gunner would come out from the top. They'd jump on top of the tank, kill the gunner, and throw a molotov cocktail into the tank (burning crew and equipment). The Finns were very tough (most men fighting had been loggers from the backwoods), and they had an esprit that could be compared to that of the Marines. [/QB]</font>

Mech Infantry is what? Simply Mobile, sometimes Armored Cars carrying men? APCs, Trucks, Motor Bikes... whatever composition an army is That makes them fast Infantry, and in some cases say for instance with the a few of the Armored Vehicles impervious to MG Fire While Tanks are AFVs. Armored Fighting Vehicles, a totally different type of unit. They're meant to use their cannons to break up large numbers of enemy. Shoot through obstacles a smaller arms could not. Get to a situation faster with small artillery. Lots of MGs to counter lots of Infantry. It's a big fat killing machine... Artillery has to be towed or pushed and is slow, and ancient in comparison with tanks... Tanks plowed and pushed through the Trench Warfare theory... Big Difference than Mech Infantry<though these days they give them some firepower on their Vehicles and even back in ww2 I recall 1 Armored Transport the carrying MG on the top turret>

Well, one thing about SC is in France '40 the FOW doesn't matter so much so that is one way to prevent it's usefulness

I read a link to a webpage about the Winter War on here by one of our unofficial experts. Supposedly even Russian Warships took part in the combat during the Winter War. The Truth is seems the Russians lost a lot of men. They got a little 'gains' and hardly worth the losses. In the end gotta say Finland with their tiny little Army were Brave and Diehards, give them credit. You should give the Finns 1 Army and 1 Corps with an HQ. both with 2 Experience Bars...and some German Technology

I have personally played Kuniworth, Terif and ZappSweden and can say honestly I don't believe any of these men have cheated. There are plenty of exploits. I think that there is a dicehack and of course Rambo announced publicly how Sniff Fog of War out... PBEM is very much honor system from what I understand anyways, and you should stay with the dedicated Crew on-line. People like Comrade Trapp, Jersey John, Curry, etc... Most of the PBEM League guys I've known are very very honest fellows... There are some questionable folk, but I merely look for 'how long a man has played' and ask the above fellows who they like to play, so get a player list of say 5-10 guys. YaggaMouth very nice curtsies... Most men on the IP Leage seemed honest. I personally think the amount effort that goes into Sniffing stuff is redicilious. If you need that to win, you really deserve it People who want to win soooooooooo bad, they can have every last game. Can't track em all. I've played people I believe to be cheaters Even Hombre Plin, and I beat them... So that is fun to pay them back with soooooo much more skill, that no advantage can possibly help them is fun

Not too much Computers Young Man! Get yourself a Life us diehard SC players are like Drinkers, then again if you have to pick between a bad excess in life, pick SC Congrats. You're at the Threshold Of all that's possible in a Man's life!

ROFL, I'd like to fly to Spain to check out Hombre Plin. To recall we played a game once where the guy after losing Russia did too damned good. Couldn't figure out what he had on his side, now I know. I wonder if Plin is back under a new Alias? or who else is using this little Hack?

Kuniworth, he means the Barbarossa Scenario. The Axis units have a way out my friend Goto Vichy with them to you can get a Port to resupply then conquor the Middle East or just leave, whatever you want. I'd use Air in the Med if you want to do much though

how about losing a game by leaving D.C. empty and not paying attention

When this Euros meet my new SC2 Strategies they'll bow beneath my feet. I'll line em all up

Well, that leaves some other Man to Hold the Torch for the New World? Well, where are you bloody hell come forth and go kill Europe. In 5 Wars I know of they haven't won a single one. Don't change it now. Revolutionary, 1812, American-Spanish, WW1, WW2... Bahhhhhh, I want Eurobutt on a Platter. Show em some Robert E Lee. Some Grant, Some Patton, some MacArthur. Get out your game. Be something...