Terif

... after a night to sleep over it, I changed my mind. To give into his intentions and abuse of the administrator rights would be against all my principles. Zapp made clear that the new system will not be removed in the near future. It is his league, he makes the rules and he doesnt care about the vote of any ZL member. So I have no other choice than voting with my feets... Zapp badly wants the top spot in the League. He couldnt beat me on the battlefield, so he had to change the rules for his own advantage. Now he will get the top spot through his rule change. I dont know how much the "throne" (as he called it) is worth if gotten via rule changes... I dont have the intention to play again against Zapp and waste more of my time. Its my spare time (or better: sleeping time)that I sacrifices when playing and I will decide against who I play. So I take the consequence: I WITHDRAW FROM THE ZAPP-LEAGUE

I had a long discussion with Zapp via ICQ. Since I really love playing SC, I first thought I will have to live with the new "Anti-Terif" Rule made by Zappsweden, but.... [ September 24, 2003, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Zapp: During the last week each time you were constantly asking for a game. I explained you several times that I dont want to play you every day and that we can play again after October 1 = 12 days later from Friday. After a while this really annoyed me.... Then you asked again at Friday 19, where I told you the same at 10.43 am forum time: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=006401 Only 40 minutes later the challenge system had been activated (see first post this thread) and you challenged me to play you within the next 10 ! days or I would get penalized... So in my view it was something personal....

Waiting for a reply....

Zapp: I had a night to sleep over this thing and calm down. Curry is right: our dispute can damage the community and our common hobby severly. I have a PEACE OFFER for you: How about making an arrangement: when we finished a game, after a time period of 10 days each of us has the right to challenge the other one via the Battlefront forum (= we make an appointment for the next available time slot). If we see the other one searching for a game (ICQ or opponent finder forum) we can ask for a game and play immediately. The game between us has priority over all other games except when we are already in a game or have a fixed appointment with another player. In this case we make an appointment for the next available time slot. From my point of view, this arrangement would have advantages for both sides: - You want to play competition and as you pointed out earlier, dont want to search for me all the time to play a game with me. With this arrangement you can be sure you will get a game every 10 days if you want to and real life doesnt interfere (sometimes one of us has holidays or too much work to do ). - it is also good for competition in my opinion: if you can repeat turns or restart games when something goes wrong, without any consequences, then it is no real competition. After enough tries everyone will win someday simply by chance. With a 10 day break between the games, it has a meaning if you win or loose a game. You cant play immediately again, so it is really a success if you win. If you win within a limited amount of games then it is a real achievement. - for myself the main problems are: I want to play many different players. During the 10 days I have the opportunity to do so. And I want a challenging and interesting game. With the 10 day break, you have an incentive to give me a real fight and I am sure you will think twice if it is really necessary to surrender. If you decide to surrender, this will be ok and I know you gave your best. You are a very good player and with a bit perseverance I am pretty sure you will beat me again some day (hopefully in the far, far future ).

Curry: I fully agree with you. At the moment it is an emotional thing. With some distance and after some time I am pretty sure this will have a total different look. The challenge system isolated can be discussed if it is useful or not (My opinion is: not useful, playing SC should be fun and not a duty). But it was the combination of things: during the whole week I had to discuss with Zapp why not (immediately) and when I would play with him. I said him several times that we can play after October 1 and after some days this discussion really annoyed me. The challenge system was only the last link in a chain. Perhaps this is not very objective any more and my reactions a bit exaggerated, but thats how I feel... As I said in my other posts: if the challenge system is removed and the challenge itself(without penalty), then I have no problem to return to normal relations and play like usual after October 1. I can start a game with Zapp at October 2 or one of the following days. Since then I have my normal time schedule back. I am pretty sure we find a fitting time to make an appointment cause usually we both should have time around 10 am-3/4pm european time. [ September 20, 2003, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

I explained you detailed why I wont play you immediately again and that we could play after October 1. Before this date I have simply other things to do than playing with you. You couldnt wait these few days, you started the challenge system and tried to force me to play in exactly the time frame where I explained I can not play against you. As I said before: I hate behaviour like this. And I react very aggressively at such behaviour.

I dont continue discussing minor details with you. Deactivate the Challenge system or I take the consequences.

You are right, there are 4 days between our game and the challenge. Our last game was at Monday sept 15. But you asked me to play against you at sept 16. There I explained you that I want to play others first and said you that we can play again after October 1. See posts: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=006348;p=1 During the following days you insisted to play with me, the last time at Friday sept 19: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=006401 Shortly after this discussion you activated the challenge system and challenged me. Game had to be completed within 10 days. I clearly explained you earlier that I will play you again in 12 days.... It is really annoying and bad style how you want to force me to play with you, we really played enough games and if you remove the challenge system + the challenge we surely will play enough more...

It turns out bad, have a look at the "discussion", so abandon it. You activated it (+challenged me) an hour after you asked me to play a game where I told you I first want to play some other people cause we had our last game the day before. I even gave you a time when we can play again. But you obviously were not willing to wait. So tell me this challenge system is not against me... As I said I dont play a challenge game against you. Until you deactivate the system I will NOT play any game against you. You have time to deactivate it until the penalty resulting from the not played challenge game takes place (Enough time to "test" it...). If it happens that I get penalized by the system because of your challenge system, then you can be sure I will not play you ever again, contact the staff of My-League and the other consequences I am pretty sure you can imaginate. You know what I am talking about...

Zapp: Seems you have not deactivated the challenge system... I am not accepting to be forced to a game. I play SC because it is fun. I never avoided a game that could bring my rank in danger (I even lost top position twice until the next game). We both played enough games and will (hopefully) play a lot more, so no need for you to use the challenge system to force me. Consequence: Deactivate the challenge system, I will not play a challenge game against you. If it is not possible to remove the challenge against me, then post a loss (in this case you have a bonus for our next games and dont need to report your next loss). I play by free will, but not if someone wants to force me to, I really hate such things and will react very aggressively... Until the challenge system is deactivated I will not play a game against you any more. If you deactivate it (and I dont get penalized by your challenge) then we can play like normal our games at the usual times after October 1.

Hi Curry, 1. Playing SC should make fun and should not be a duty 2. I dont know any player who avoided a game in order to not bring his rank in danger. If you want a game with someone, simply send an e-mail (or post in the forum, but this can be overlooked...) and you can make an appointment with any active player (including myself ). 3. You dont need the challenge system to set up a game. The only use of the challenge system is to harass a higher ranked player and bring him down: The lower ranked player simply needs to avoid playing the challenge game, or doesnt report the loss, then the higher ranked player looses ranks and he cant do anything against it...

Sorry, but I dont think its worth to try the challenge system. Its not useful for SC. SC is too time consuming. I dont accept to be forced to play a game when I dont have time for it and it can be very difficult to find a time when to play the challenge game. Additionally the challenge system can be too easily abused. You know the way SC players find their opponents. Its incompatible with the challenge system. As we both agreed earlier: The my-league rules are made for another type of game (Chess, Backgammon, Tetris...etc) with much more players. The challenge system is another thing that doesnt fit to SC. Therefore please deactivate the challenge system.

You obviously abuse the fact that you are the ladder admin. I told you earlier in detail that I want to play also some other players and not only against you !! We played during the last 60 days 19 games, in average one every 3 days (and lots of them took the 3 days to complete..). I was mainly busy playing with you. I played over 50 games against you, against nobody else I played so much. When I play against you, I cant play against somebody else, so easy it is, therefore I told you we can play, but not every day (one game every 1-2 weeks is ok) and I need a break between our games. Especially since our games are not much fun any more: only exactly the same old strategy in order to win against me at all cost. If you make any minor mistake or I try a new strategy you surrender and want to start a new game immediately, thats really annoying. I am very disappointed from your behaviour You have the chance to deactivate the challenge system. I told you I have time to play again against you after October 1 at the usual times. But during the 11 days until then I have the chance to play some other players cause I can play at US times. And I want to use this opportunity !! So please deactivate the challenge system and the challenge against me, or I will take my consequences.

I challenge players from my group. During the next 11 days (until September 30) I can play at every time you wish . Just post here and tell me a time when you want to play (Basis is forum time).

Hi CvM, Zapp is missing his american opponent, you are missing your euro opponent... http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=002877

Here some information about how bidding works (copied): You bid for playing the Axis (standard scenario fall weiss 1939). Allies get additional mpp at the start. This is done by using the editor. There are different bidding systems: - original one: 1:1:1 i.e. bid 100 means UK, USA and Russia get 100 mpp each at the start. - 1:4 until 1:10 i.e. USA doesnt get mpp. UK receives 1 x the bid, Russia 4-10 times the bid. There is also a new system called "Russia system". The system give only Russia handicap MPP. "I bid 1500" would mean Russia start with 1500 MPP extra and all other countries start at 0. Standard is at the moment the 1:8 system: e.g. bid 250means: UK 250; USA 0; Russia 250x8=2000 mpp. Bidding is done because most players think Axis has an advantage against Allies, to determine who plays which side and to even out skill differences between the players. [ September 17, 2003, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Kurt88/Curry: As far as I know it is possible to set other values in the myleague. The currrent settings are probably the standards, but can be changed for each league. So no need to do it manually. On the other hand you can have a better overview(comments) when doing it manually and handle SC issues more flexible. However, Oak has already started a (manually)list/league with PBEM players (sticky topic No.2 in the SC forum) and has also a loss/win record of the games played. Perhaps you should get in contact with him if you can work together...2 different PBEM Leagues could be a bit confusing . [ September 17, 2003, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Good Idea Curry But dont forget to check the rules section and set SC appropriate values. Especially have a look at the current settings of: - inactivity removal: after 21 days a member will be removed automatically (Z-League is 90 days, PBEM should perhaps be even more time... otherwise you will loose all members of your ladder after a short time, since they will be removed automatically ). - inactivity top 10: 7 days - Leapfrogging: 3 days - "Once a day": only one match /day allowed SC needs a lot of time, so you should think in weeks (or months ), not days... especially in PBEM [ September 17, 2003, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Germany has now 16 armies, 5 tanks, 7 Airfleets and dozens of corps/minors in Russia. Leningrad cut off. Russian corps dying like flies... Still no western front... War is over, Allies surrender unconditionally after a last failed attack in France... [ September 15, 2003, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Terif ]

June 6, 1942: German offensive in the north and south of Russia. Mine captured south of Kharkov. Corps killing between Leningrad and Smolensk. US corps in Brest under attack. Axis corps block allied landing sites in France.

May 17, 1942: Germany reaches Lv5 jets too. The battle of France has begun, UK carrier attacking helpless german corps , while US air keeps defending german airfleets busy. In Russia german units reach Leningrad. Finland joins the Axis cause.

April 19, 1942: Russia kills a german tank south of Leningrad. German forces take revenge in the following Axis turn, kill 2 russian tanks + several corps and take Minsk. 13 german armies, 5 tanks, 7 AF + lots of corps in Russia now...

March 22, 1942: Russia attacks east of Minsk, but without success. Weakened russian counter units destroyed, german tanks break through towards Leningrad. USA reached Lv 5 jets (Germany Lv4). First airfights in the west after Barbarossa started.

February 8, 1942: Riga conquered. Still no action in the west. Report shows: USA is building additional Airfleets...