Richie

Jim, That was 'Wolf in Sheeps Clothing'. While I have some PBEM turns from it, I don't have the password, the initial file and nor does Kingfish, who designed it. Kawaiku, all I can say is, ALL these scenarios were designed for H2H play, some of the magic will be lost and squandered by the AI...

Kingfish, Please if you can, send Push to Maleme, and Proof of Honour, if you have them... Even if you don't have the last version I can use the AAR's to update the briefings and the forcemixes to what they were at ROW... I've done this with a couple already.

John, Yeah, stubborn ain't I? But I will concede when I'm wrrrr wrrr wrrong...

Thanks for the kind words guys! I'm still intending to do a "ROW IV scenario pack", and a "ROW V scenario pack at some stage. I don't have all the scenarios, nearly all for ROW V, but there'll be a couple missing from ROW IV. I never got everyones permission to release their work either, which makes me hesitant about the project. Kingfish, do you have 'Push to Maleme', beyond the playtest version? This is a good prompt to get on with that project. John, interestingly enough I'm playing Tiger Valley myself against one other individual who played it in the ROW tourney. He also played the Allies and is playing another person alongside our game...

Excellent find Andreas!

John, I concede there should be some sort of terracing on the MK map... I'm just not so sure how effective and convincing it will be in CM terms. I think the initial thing would be to get the Balkas correct... if I can reproduce any terracing beyond that while keeping the appearance realistic then that's a bonus.

Excellent Work Russ! Nice panorama from the Red Oktober Steel Mill. I was wondering how expansive the rail lines actually were. On most maps they're one short little line... They're your photo's that you took?

That last photo is gold! I'd guess less than that. On the Geert Rottiers map it puts the MK at around 500m. Here it looks bigger though with terrain relief standing out...

John, Feel free to email them to me, my email is in my profile. I will get round to editing the scenario at some stage... On the other hand, when I put together my Tennis Raquette scenario, most of the work will be done already...

It's all good! It's hard to find accurate source material. It's always good when other people do all the work for me...

Maybe we should change the title of this thread... Mamayev Kurgan enlightenment of the beguiled for Richie... OR, Stalingrad Nightmares for Richie...

Every indication I've read has been toward the Red October site as the alternate location of Chuikov's HQ, but Melnibone's map casts doubt on that. The Red October landing stage is the one cited as the predominant ferry landing when the central landing stage was briefly occupied by the Germans. Certainly the closest point was the Red October site... Like I said before, many sources contradict themselves. It's hard to find definitive sources...

Interesting you cite 'North' as to where Chuikov had his HQ. There are no oil tanks to the north as far as I know, unless they're at the Red Barricady Ordanance Works. The Oil Tanks were to the South West of the Red October Steel Mill. You can see the Volga to the east in that photo, and the Red October Steel Mill in the North in the foreground. The Tsaritsa is in Central/Southern Stalingrad, just south of 'Red Square'. It's amazing how many reference points and items seem to conflict... Putting together Stalingrad Station 1-i was a nightmare. I had something like 60 drafts of the scenario... [ February 09, 2007, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: Richie ]

...And the buildings are in one piece, not totally flattened, and the absence of shell craters...

Oh Yeah, Here's the plate from the book... Hopefully I'll get a chance to rework the scenario this weekend... Unfortunately these days, I have so much on my plate with the two campaigns I run and Tournament Master over at We Band of Brothers... & RL, something always seems to take a back seat... [ February 09, 2007, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Richie ]

That is good work fellas! I'm extremely grateful to all you guys for discovering my error! Just for the record, I think the bit your refering to about the oil tanks and Chuikov's HQ being shrouded with smoke and surrounded by fire actually occured just to the southeast of the Red October Steel Mills, just on the bank of the Volga. He moved his HQ there when it looked like the Germans might over run the Mamayev Kurgan. I still believe most of the terracing would have disappeared in the shelling. If you look at the contrast of the late photo of the 'tennis raquette' compared to the earlier shots, I think you can recognise the transformation by artillery and bombs. I suspect the Mamayev Kurgan would have suffered the same fate... What I really need to do is include the Balkas in my scenario... They will certainly add another element to it! The thing that annoys me most is I bought that book on the bassis of that one photo. I drove 40kms out of my way to pick the book up. At the time it was the only war shot I had seen of the effects of shelling on the Kurgan... Once again, excellent work fellas! I'll include you all in the scenario references and thankyou's! Maybe I should get you to look over my aerial shots of the Red October Steel Mill I'm putting into a CM Map...

*sigh*

I agree! The plate (prior to page 311) out of John Erickson's, The Road to Stalingrad is clearly mislabelled and depicts an area of the Tennis Raquette, not as it says, the Mamayev Kurgan... That is the photo I used above... How **** is that? :mad: Mind you, that website wasn't available 12 months ago when the scenario was put together. The ground area for my map of the Mamayev Kurgan was derived from Geert Rottiers Stalingrad map and other sources... Unfortunately, those two roads weren't. Interesting isn't it? You'd trust a well regarded book to be correct in the photos it lists... Well I guess I need to work over the scenario some...

The Mamayev Kurgan was adjacent to the 'Tennis Raquette', south of the Red October Steel Mills and North of the city centre... That is the Mamayev Kurgan, the tartar burial mound, identified as photo 1. I think the photos from the website are from August 1942? That would be prior to the majority of the fighting.

Absolutely... Your photo. My photo.

Thanks HEAPS for the links, they really do ROCK, but... probably not. I do suspect the realism of terracing might have been 'overwritten' by the thousands of tons of shells and bombs that landed on it... They don't show up in the overhead photo I used but the hundreds of craters certainly do... Something the 3D model lacked? I think I'll wait for one of the 150 people who downloaded it to actually play it and review it before I mess with a scenario that worked quite well the way it was. Feel free to be the first!

Great Stuff!

Yes, there is news. Yes, there is PBEM. Steve </font>

I guess that means that the 'sappers' are the people who collect the rubber from rubber trees then...

I built & posted two A T-34/85 for BigDuke6 for his ROW V AAR of "Across Moltke Bridge" An early Tiger from the 501st for BigDog for his ROW V AAR of "Tiger Valley" (Photo's have been taken by the new owners in situ)