Lucky_Strike

Winter trees seem to be summer trees with slightly different texture applied and no leaves. I hadn’t thought to use them for the burnt trees base, but they might well work more easily. The burnt texture is pretty straight forward but less leaves to mask out is a real bonus! I’ll have a look at those in CMFI as I know that has a larger range of trees in all seasonal states, bushes as well.

LOL very accurate description - bocage chop suey anyone!

LOL - I’ve had plenty of weird outcomes - floating trees separated from their trunks; flashing trees that I couldn’t approach in the game, they just kept jumping away from me; branches way off in the distance outside the map, to name but a few. I feel very flattered but I honestly still haven’t fully figured out why one thing works and another doesn’t. I know metadata is very important for some items, but others seem to be less reliant on it. There’s a lot of stuff going on that is way above my pay grade. Yesterday I made a completely new tree model and managed to get it into the game but the trunk and branches appeared without texture whilst the leaves were on another part of the map, at ground level, looking like giant broccoli! I guess on @sbobovyc could probably figure out a lot of these issues, sadly he seems busy elsewhere with RL I think.

Thanks for the info 37mm. flavour objects aren’t something I’ve looked at yet, but I’ve seen what you and@Aquila-SmartWargames have achieved utilising them, so understand how they can easily be put to use for such things as burnt trees. I know that they can be a bit of a pig to place, but at least for something like trees I guess orientation doesn’t matter so much. When I’m finished with my Hedgerow Hell texture mod I’ll be taking a closer look at the .mdr mods for trees, bocage and bushes. I’ll see if I can do a burnt bush that should easily be transferable to all the games. If it’s got no leaves it won’t look like anything identifiable as being European, Middle Eastern or Asian.

Thanks Sgt. Yeah, the trees do need some work for sure. I’m not so familiar with the editing tools in Blender yet to be able to control stuff when trying to, for example, scale a branch. They ended up a bit big and angular. I need to experiment a bit more with the models to see what else I can do with them. Mostly I just wanted the trunks to look less regular for the three medium and large trees, make them look a little less like broccoli . The pine and tall tree are ok as they are, but a few angles makes a world of difference to the others. I don’t know much about mod tags and map design so whatever advice 37mm, or anyone else, can give me which will enable folks to make their fantastic maps is very welcome. I’ve checked out the H&E thread many time and am very inspired by the great work being done by everyone involved. I know how difficult and time consuming taking on such a project can be, so I take my hat off to you all .

Well, another quickish experiment later, and I don't think we can have actual coexisting 3D models for the same numbered tree only MAYBE different textures, though even with this there are likely to be redraw issues which I think are associated with those pesky lod files. I think it would be best to either use scenario specific mod tags for one or two damaged tree types, or just temporarily add the damaged trees to the z folder when playing a scenario that has damaged trees. I personally think mod tags would be neater and avoid any confusion, but would need careful map design. On a lighter note, I decided to fat-shame a bit more of the Norman countryside - fat trees anyone? A rough idea, textures would need work, but as proof of concept ... perhaps a bit more natural looking.

Fat bocage trunks and branches anyone ...? Fat-shaming the bocage ...

All this rummaging in textures and .mdr files has got me wondering if we can have coexisting damaged and normal trees. Doesn’t the game already strip the leaves from trees when they are repeatedly hit by HE? Off to blow up some woods ...

Hah! The blind leading the blind, I really don’t know much more myself yet. My first efforts, and eventual success, were more akin to Lord Percy inventing purest green ...

Thanks. If I can get a repeatable result then I’ll try to do a write up of how I got there. At the moment I have one working section of bocage that I have managed to make some changes to, mostly getting rid of the bean-pole-like branches. Last night I tried a few other tweaks. One which I am particularly interested in was to make the main branches thicker which actually worked quite well. I think the .mdr file metadata is quite significant to whether I can get an exported file working, or not. I wish I actually really understood what was happening through the process, but I am only just getting comfortable with the Blender interface. Early days! And most thanks have to go to you groundbreakers, and of course @sbobovyc for his amazing contribution.

Thanks Sgt. I'm hopeful that I may have an even better solution to the use of normal hedges as forest thickets. Looking at the 3D .mdr files for the bocage I suspect that I may be able to wrangle stuff so that the texture currently used by both bocage and normal hedge - boccage2.bmp I believe - is ONLY used by hedges and not by bocage. That is to say it's perhaps possible to make both low and tall bocage .mdr mods that use boccage.bmp and the other new numbered boccage bmps that I'm making, so that just normal hedges are using the boccage2.bmp. This would then allow for a unique texture to be created for boccage2.bmp / hedges. They could then, with careful management, or perhaps mod tags, be used as the thickets that @benpark, yourself and no doubt others would like to see in game. I don't know how much LOS, cover or concealment hedges provide when used in this way but I would warrant that it's better in some respects than brush and long grass ...

Hah. We might even have something for you by the weekend kind sir. Keep an eye open for more than a sip or two ...

Bien sûr mon ami. Bocage, bocage, bocage ...

So ... I got a bit distracted after @Ithikial_AU suggested some burnt trees might be nice, started to think about modding the actual 3D models - the .mdr files that we've seen @Aquila-SmartWargames and @37mm amongst others change so radically and effectively. This was mooted some time back by a few of you and I said I would have a go at it once I got done with the textures. As my better half will testify I'm always a good one for moving on to the next project before finishing the current one, so I dove into Blender (more of a belly-flop than a pike ) at the end of last week. To cut a long story short, I started with the bocage (of course), I was on the cusp of giving up because I just couldn't get the files to export correctly with all my edits intact - think branches only, floating bushes, displaced bushes lah lah lah Had one more go today and ... lo and behold - I present some subtly changed bocage: Can't spot what's different? In the middle, fewer bean poles - will please some of you - I certainly won't miss them, and some more, same again ... Here's a pic the actual Blender file ... You can just about make out the remaining bean pole branches outlined in orange, there are normally a dozen or so on a larger section of bocage, here we have about half that amount. I also removed a couple of leafy branches, just to see if it would work, they are gone in-game! So what does all this mean - I don't know. It took me days to get this far. I can use Blender to make the edits I want, I don't really understand the whole process, why things happen or don't when I export files, but if I can make some edits that make even just the bocage look more natural then I will be one happy lapin. My plan is to make a fully edited section of bocage - more ragged, less or no bean poles, maybe some better branches and roots - then see how it looks in game. I have a few bocage textures to finish first though, so I can release the Hedgerow Hell mod - otherwise @3j2m7 will be knocking at my door demanding I release them .

As you say, it’s not. It’s just a simple rotating pintle mount in a socket on top of a hollow post. All evidence would suggest that the GI could sit on the back seat rest to fire the MG for ground targets, or dismount to get high elevations for AA fire. There’s not much room to stand in the rear of a Jeep, especially with the .50 mounted. So would seem that the model needs to be redone.

Something like this do you mean?: This one needs less twigs but otherwise one very scorched dead tree. Or maybe this one plus another one that is not so burnt and with a few living leaves? Now back to bocage ... and please don't anyone suggest a whole landscape of destruction - burnt trees and bushes, scorched grass and brush, uprooted crops, blackened ground, all covered in the dust and debris of explosions ... don't even think it!!!!

Should be easy enough to produce one or two tree types with little or no foliage. These could then be swapped into the game to replace existing trees or, probably better still, we should be able to use mod tags so other scenarios aren’t affected. The only caveat might be that any scorching on the trees may be a bit weird looking because of the way the bark texture is applied and stretched for the trunk and branches. I have figured out how to stop the bark from looking oddly stretched on the main trunk, but branches still suffer from smeared textures. Still we can but try ...

Hah! It's so close now I can almost feel the bocage embracing my tired bones ... or somethin'

A bit of Googling on the subject - 'cos I got nuttin' better to do ... The Jeep used the M31A/C mount for the .50 or .30 cal (and BAR apparently). The pintle part at the top was used across all sorts of mounts - easier manufacturing and replacement. The column only housed a socket at the top - no telescoping. Nice pdf of a field manual here - page 5 is pretty explanatory. Now for some pictures ... Hootin' Annie - that'll do nicely. To use in AA roll the gunner would need to stand outside to get the elevation. Otherwise, he can stay pretty much seated to fire that thing. Pretty simple construction ... ... all just bolted into the base of the jeep. This doesn't show the travel lock - the long, angled bar that you can see in front of the gunner in the photo above. These guys went a little bit too far - 37mm AT gun! This was a thing apparently - must of kicked like a buckaroo when they fired it. Just plain silly... Now back to bocage ...

Soon impatient one, soon ...

Mannn! That’ll be years from now at BFs work rate ...

LOL. I'm sure that's what the Lord Protector thought whilst chopping off old Charlie Boy's head Nice! Is that Falaise at his local skate-park back in the day? Must be about time for another of your famed photo competitions, perhaps something to do with non-combat activities in the bocage - rollerblading, making tea, that sort of thing.

Thanks @benpark. A useful write-up from Steve. I did a small experiment last night just to see what hedges look like in a densely wooded terrain. They are not too bad actually. What I found looked best was having a few pieces of various odd shapes, especially the hedge with gap or the corner sections, spread around the edges of the woods. Then, rather than use the forest floor tiles as ground texture I used weeds, long grass or extra long grass, all combined with brush. The results are a very dense periphery to the woods with the hedges being quite hard to distinguish from the rest of the vegetation. It's quite a lot of work to make it look random and natural, but I actually think your solution of hedges as thickets is very workable. Hedges in woods viewed from a distance ... ... up close, hedge with gap, can't really be distinguished ... ... trees off, still not easy to see Map of the area, hedges are a tile or two back from the edge of the woods, bright green. Of course it only really convinces with a fairly wild looking mod, stock textures may be a bit too regular, but nevertheless it's definitely an improvement. It would still be nice, as you say, to have a thicket texture which could be combined with tree or bush tiles in the same way as hedges or bocage can be. It could even use the same boccage bmps just a bit more random and gappy perhaps. Incidentally, I noticed that the hedge texture is actually the same as used for the bocage, only thinner. I thought it was a separate bmp, I have seen one called hedge that looks completely different - how is that used? Or isn't it used? hedge.bmp I tried hedges out in the open on a map, but it still uses the bocage texture. I can't do anymore of the 70's inspired mods for fear of upsetting a certain Puritan Protector. Although ,as a child of the 70's, I'd definitely like to see a 70's mod - lots of brown and beige with splashes of disco colours, pixeltruppen with giant sideburns and too much hair running around in flares with stacked heels, or on roller-skates even ...

Ah yes. To be clear, I was only just out of nappies (diapers) at the time, so this kind of cultural highlight was a bit over my head ... I was, however, fond of the odd Mars bar or two back then.

Sorry to interject here but I can see the need for a modded flavour object - kettle, couple of mugs and a nice little tea caddy - come on there must be someone out there who can make this?