Beta1

I like the PIV, especially the variants with the long(er) 75. In BB if used well they are excellent tanks. You just musnt use them close up or singly. What you want is at least a pair of them engaging any russian tank (ideally more obviously) at long ranges where their greater accuracy will tell. Against 75mm T34s (probably best equivelent russian tank) they are lethal. Out at 800m or so the T34s will struggle to hit a P4 where as the P4 can KO will hit frequently and KO with most hits. Yes their low armor makes them vunerbale compared to other germans machines but their accuract more than makes up for it. Like the man said go and learn to drive a firefly or a 76 sherman and use them the same way.

Had that happen quite alot (losing AT teams to tank crews) especially if your dealing with a large tank with a 6 man crew. If they all egt out alive thats practically a half-squad

As far as I know this has always been the way CM works. The TacAI only looks for terrain type cover, not at the breaking LOS using the terrain itself. This can result in some very unpleasent situations where troops decide its best to crawl towards cover even if it means crawling towards the shooter.

True but if its a sound contact grey box tank you still cant target it directly. When you do get real LOS and partial ID the tank often turns out to be in a different position. I find grey box tanks tend to be closer than where it really is. I guess if you can hear a tank coming towards you your going to think its a tiger 25m away in the fog rather than a SPW 75m.

I often entrench AT guns mainly to allow me to put them somewhere unexpected - eg between obvious bits of cover. It works pretty nicely in a recent game my opponent fired what looked like a couple of on board 81mm mortars worth of rounds at one of my guns. I broke LOS with a smoke shell fired directly ahead of the gun and despite being bombarded for the best part of 5 minutes the gun crew were never even pinned. Eventually a T34-85 turned up and KOed the gun after another couple of minutes of fire (shortly afterwards a second AT opened up at 90 degrees to the first and KOed the T34). Ditto with the MGs, you can blaze away for ever from a trench and not give away your position. And even if they do find you a HMG in a trench is probably more survivable than a MG bunker. Especially if you start one end of a trench and once the area fire starts up you sneak to the other end to get away.

Its a pretty useful weapon, sort ranged (ideally less than 150m) but hard hitting. Its pretty cheap as well and easy to hide but not the most accurate weapon in the world. Usefull for a reverse slope or a flank you need to cover. Think of it as a short range defense AT gun rather than a mobile asset - if you can set it up in a foxhole where you need it it is stealthy enough. The recoilless rifles are also similar but with a longer range. In BO these were hollow charge only if memory serves but in BB they came with HE shells too. The 105 RLR had a decent blast and was a fairly useful direct fire support weapon although it does give its position away rather badly.

Three cheers for Madmatt. hip hip, (etc.)

I agree with flamingknives. Add a 4 gun FO or a half ammo FO. That way the historically accurate can continue with their full battery support on the rare occasions it can be purchased and the rest of us can actually use artillery for once. Note, not ADD a reduced FO type not REPLACE

I forgot to add: I'm in favour of reducing the number of shells per FO to bring the cost down. For those who like their historical accuracy wouldnt it be possible to add another lower ammo loadout FO for the common allied medium arty (105s, 25pdrs, maybe 4.2" mortars and 4.5" guns)

I've come up agasint this problem as well. In small-medium QB I can rarely buy artillery as allies due to the cost. I think in the current games I'm playing (all around 2000 points or so) theres only one game where I have a tube over 3" and thats a 4.2" mortar. Its definately changed a lot since BO, as the brits I used to take the field with a 3" & 4.2" mortar FOs and a 4.5" gun one. Now I'm lucky to get a 4.2" on its own and as a result normally end up buying a on map battery of 81"/3" mortars, a couple of mortar carriers or a couple of 105s or 25pdrs for direct fire as I cannot afford the support otherwise. While the 3" mortar option is an acceptable alternative the 81s dont have enough ammo and the on map guns are much more limiting even when provided with transport.

if the HQ is set to "hide" it cannot spot for mortars. Thats caught me out a few times as in CMBO they could. Just set a small cover arc if you dont want them to fire themselves.

if the HQ is set to "hide" it cannot spot for mortars. Thats caught me out a few times as in CMBO they could. Just set a small cover arc if you dont want them to fire themselves.

basically if a round detonates on the ground half the "sphere" of shrapnel goes straight into the ground. If its up in the air then the area below the shell gets saturated with shrapnel. Also the higher burst means fragments will travel further. And thats without taking into account that things like foxholes cover you from the front and sides but not above - so if your under an airburst your pretty much screwed whether or not your in a foxhole. In CMBO you could see the added effect of airbursts with the allied VT arty which was much much more lethal than its non VT equivelent. (VT shells airburst even over open ground)

Like the man said - youve just been hit by a planned barrage - always on time always accurate. However buying lots of rockets and just spamming the setup zone tends not to pay for itself in the long run. Mainly because the rockets come in so spread out. After a while you just saturate the area anyway and further hits dont do much extra damage. Anyway theres a very simple way to aviod these. Dont deploy masses of troops in an area the opponent can see in turn one. If you do your opponent is almost certain to drop some heavy artillery on it. After turn 1 the delays become massive and its hard to get a rocket FO to ever hit anything. I would also suggest not playing "unrestricted" force battles. If you stick to any of the other types the chances of you ever encountering an 8" gun or more than 1 rocket FO is practically zero. Then its just things like sturmtigers you have to worry about.

LOL In that case I've just done an entire review calling it Africa Korps. Better get onto my editor and change that!

Post more! Its as simple as that. (Great info BTW)

No manual thats why. Grumble.

IMHO its a far better game than BB. Dont know why exactly, maybe its the theatre, maybe the aussie sound files. Probably the lack of mud and the large numbers of palm trees. Incidently anyone noticed that if you choose all theatres for a quick battle map you sometimes get tall pines growing in the desert?

PDF manuals are crap. Personally I think its a major screw up by CDV to publish a game of this complexity with no printed manual.

Well its sure a fun one to play as the brits. SPOILER Split my starting forces into 3 groups and advanced on a wide front. After an inital unopposed advance I spent the first half of the map falling back dune by dune, killing a fair number of ACs and a few light tanks at each ridge but being more concerned with keeping my cruisers alive so withdrawing rather than risking losing them. Still lost 2 by the time I had withdrawn to the last dune. left a few AT rifle teams around the place to act as eyes so knew roughly the italian strength at this point. As the extra cruisers arrived I sent them to reinforce the groups that had taken losses. The portees moved to provide a backstop incase the italians tried to force the road. When the matildas arrived I had them hunt up the road in a line across the valley floor. The cruisers moved up behind with the portees reversing along behind them. Each dune was retaken with a minimum of fuss as the italians gave up trying to attack the matildas after the first few of their tanks got blown. Am now right back up to the last ridge before the pimple with 10 turns to go. I have infantry in the depression before the pimple and one of my flanking groups of 4 cruisers has LOS to the area around the flag and have cleared any remaining threats from it. So that should be easy enough to take now. The wadi is still in italian hands but the matildas have forced the remaining italian armoured group into a small patch of dead ground surrounding the wadi and another area way off behind the pimple. Estimated enemy strength is 20-25 light tanks, tankettes and portees at the wadi and half that behind the pimple. Italian infantry is lurking in the rough before the wadi preventing the matildas from cresting the last ridge and driving the italian armour off the back of the map. A group of 4 cruisers is currently making a fast run around the other edge of the wadi to try and catch a group of tankettes that have broekn off from the main body of armour (they seem to be trying to escape around the back of the wadi). The truck mounted infantry is now rolling forward as I intend to dismount them and use them to flush the infantry out of the rough in conjunction with the 25pdr FO although having cornered a large amount of italian armour it is tempting to do an experiment on the effect of 88mm artillery on light armour. Few POWs as yet, only 2 crews. As I think the cruiser groups will have completely surrounded the remaining italians within the next 5 turns I expect that number to rise rapidly. Current losses 4 cruisers 1 mkIVB (havnt used them except as scouts - once the italian armor is neutrlised they should be good at rounding up the crews), a few scattered infantry losses from long range MGs and a couple of AT rifle teams who decided ignore their cover arcs. One IVB bogged as well. Currently 58%:42% to me as AI holds all the flags. Not for much longer

Well its sure a fun one to play as the brits. SPOILER Split my starting forces into 3 groups and advanced on a wide front. After an inital unopposed advance I spent the first half of the map falling back dune by dune, killing a fair number of ACs and a few light tanks at each ridge but being more concerned with keeping my cruisers alive so withdrawing rather than risking losing them. Still lost 2 by the time I had withdrawn to the last dune. left a few AT rifle teams around the place to act as eyes so knew roughly the italian strength at this point. As the extra cruisers arrived I sent them to reinforce the groups that had taken losses. The portees moved to provide a backstop incase the italians tried to force the road. When the matildas arrived I had them hunt up the road in a line across the valley floor. The cruisers moved up behind with the portees reversing along behind them. Each dune was retaken with a minimum of fuss as the italians gave up trying to attack the matildas after the first few of their tanks got blown. Am now right back up to the last ridge before the pimple with 10 turns to go. I have infantry in the depression before the pimple and one of my flanking groups of 4 cruisers has LOS to the area around the flag and have cleared any remaining threats from it. So that should be easy enough to take now. The wadi is still in italian hands but the matildas have forced the remaining italian armoured group into a small patch of dead ground surrounding the wadi and another area way off behind the pimple. Estimated enemy strength is 20-25 light tanks, tankettes and portees at the wadi and half that behind the pimple. Italian infantry is lurking in the rough before the wadi preventing the matildas from cresting the last ridge and driving the italian armour off the back of the map. A group of 4 cruisers is currently making a fast run around the other edge of the wadi to try and catch a group of tankettes that have broekn off from the main body of armour (they seem to be trying to escape around the back of the wadi). The truck mounted infantry is now rolling forward as I intend to dismount them and use them to flush the infantry out of the rough in conjunction with the 25pdr FO although having cornered a large amount of italian armour it is tempting to do an experiment on the effect of 88mm artillery on light armour. Few POWs as yet, only 2 crews. As I think the cruiser groups will have completely surrounded the remaining italians within the next 5 turns I expect that number to rise rapidly. Current losses 4 cruisers 1 mkIVB (havnt used them except as scouts - once the italian armor is neutrlised they should be good at rounding up the crews), a few scattered infantry losses from long range MGs and a couple of AT rifle teams who decided ignore their cover arcs. One IVB bogged as well. Currently 58%:42% to me as AI holds all the flags. Not for much longer

The rarity system doesnt rate numbers of allied units agasint the number of axis ones - it compares the relative number of units on the same side. Its there not to model the larger number of allied tanks but to ensure that quick battles are not dominated by unit types that were not common at that time. To put it simply its to ensure that if the germans want to swan around in large numbers of tigers they have to pay through the nose to get them as there simply werent that many. On the other hand it means that common types like the panzer 4s should be seen more often. Equally in the allies it means not every sherman will be a firefly or a easy-8 as most people will go for an cheaper M4 instead.

Yeah but like the guys said watch out for flak guns. I just set a sexton (brit SPG very similar to M7) with a keyhole LOS to a patch of wood where I was expecting some infantry. Unfortuately there was a light gun of some sort there with exactly the same keyholed LOS back to me....

I think we're seeing playing v AI and playing against human opposition differences. Playing against human opposition its not a good idea to assume you will win the armor battle. Infact many player wont let you even see their armor until a long way in. Having 10% or so of your points tied up in units you only intend to use after youve basically won the game is not the best use of points. One of the advantahes of the croc though is that is pretty much a mobile pillbox. You just keep it facing forward and pretty much everything your likley to meet in a 1000 point game just bounces off it. You can forget killing it with p4s and I played one game recently where my Tiger was blasting a churchill from less than 100m and couldnt kill it. I know people who use the non flame churchill 8 that has the same armor as a way of springing AT gun ambushes as theres a good bet they will survive. Also agaisnt humans you cant assume their infantry AT weapons will be as out of position as the AIs. A panzershreck or even a unit with some fasut-100s will really ruin your day as a wasp driver. Even a MG firing from higher elevation will easily kill the crew of a wasp (have you seen one - they really dont have much in the way of crew protection). And thats without the threat of a hidden 20/36mm flak gun or a flak armed AC/HT both of which will shred a wasp. One of the best tank in the game though is the plain M4 sherman. Dirt cheap but with enough HE and MG ammo to fire pretty much nonstop for the entire day. I think in AK where those MGs are much more deadly than in BO we're going to see the reall effect of these 3xMG tanks.

Even if you run into a tiger the firefly + cromwell/churchill 8 should be able to deal with it. the firefly can KO from any range/aspect your likley to need and the 90mm C rounds can kill a tiger too although they are less accurate. Infact I think a 6pdr T round can KO a tiger as well. If your that desperate to have flame throwers have you considered a churchill crocodile. Expensive but with a 75mm gun and a flame thrower very versatile and much much much harder to kill than a wasp. I think even an 88mm has trouble agasint the 150+mm frontal armor.