SeaMonkey

Airboy, ever played SPI's PanzerArmee Afrika? As good as AH's AK was, which I cut my teeth on, PzAA was better, different. My version is posted on cmmods, check it out and if you'd like to play, let me know. Its not for AI play, but is very good for human competition.

"Is this other peoples experiences?" Sometimes!

I don't want to interject anything here, as both scotts and Ludi bring up valid points, other than to reiterate that force projection with any staying power requires a logistical base to draw from. That is a logistical base tied to a communication and operational network for coordination of maintenance. No doubt if the Japanese has so planned they probably could have subdued the Islands initially for a period of time. Conversely, without that commitment to the network in a sustaining effort, I have no inclination to support a conclusion they(Japan) could have stayed long in the face of determined USN resolve to retake them(HI). This is the biggest test for SC IMO(for the PTO and later the Global models), we need that logistical layer for the naval features and somehow it must be simple enough for the AI to deal with competently. If the land mechanics can use the railnet effectively, why not a transparent simularity for the air and naval features? If you think about it, and picture it in your mind, the islands and ports that could form the network are the same as the rail connected cities of the inland areas.

Great point arado, perhaps the CV could, in lieu of its CAG, carry a one point strength airfleet which would have to be strengthened in subsequent turns simulating at least a delay and a capacity defficiency of delivery. Now you've risked a CV and of course a 1 strength AF is a liability also for your opponent to capitalize on and destroy for that one turn of delivery. Sound like a decent trade off? Not quite reality.

Remember everyone the turn length is subject to the designer and can include a number of weeks for this redeployment to take place. What is important for the feature is there needs to be a link of bases for the planes to fly to/transports to cruise, for pilot change/rest and refueling/maintenance. Now in PTO the planes would be capable of going east across the virtual map using the transport loop arrows assuming the base link is enforced. Obviously our CVs (refer to USS Wasp transfers to Malta) should have the ability to perform this function also, which would not be link necessitated.

A234, you are most suredly correct with reference to complication and it is a dangerous tightrope we walk. We must examine the aspects from all perspectives, but futility is what we gamers feel after a few PTO campaigns, because there has to be a chance, there needs to be hope. We need more than just rolling up our defenses to the home islands and holding on for dear life. I realize that it is historical and I submit to the fact that Japan never had a chance, but in the game there's that playing theme of "what if" and as Japan it is necessary to pursue that, however remote, to a victorious conclusion in a pitiful few instances. Somehow the game has to move into the outer sphere of islands and not remain in the inner sea areas in proximity to the home islands. That is also historical and the "what if" factor should encompass at least a temporary attainment of victory in that realm for Japan in conjunction with other hypothetical goals for the Axis participants in ETO. We need to get SC mechanics solidified in that potential scenario so that the world campaign can have the correct atmosphere to pursue the Axis victorious theories. SC is first a game, but it is also a tool, an educational tool, an extension of human imagination to replay history. A test bed, a set of hypothetical circumstances, a condensed simulation to see why past events unfolded in the way they did and how it could've been different and we can have fun doing it.

Glad to see some effort at this naval feature other than my postings. Overall I think we all agree this is a rather cumbersome task of which Hubert and Bill have both contributed a great effort and have seen some success. No doubt we all can gain some solace in the fact that they will continue to evolve the engine. Ludi always brings up interesting things to ponder and I agree with the premise of many of his statements, I probably just don't share his preeminence of the sub model as it is decent, currently. The movement features of the air and naval units are probably of more consequence in which we share the need for attention. Operating air units from one side of the globe to the other is just more that i can fathom, unless a series of bases are linked. IIRC, air refueling was not a parameter of WW2! It seems I constantly reiterate some of the things I've said in the past and i don't wish to be adamant in their adoption as I'm open to other possibilities. Still the need for the supply/communication layer keeps raising its ugly head out of the ocean depths. We have it in the land portion of SC in the form of the railnet. We need something comparable for the SC oceans.

!!NEWS FLASH!! Dispatches from Nazi Germany claim the surrender of Belgium, The Netherlands and Luxembourg in one coordinated attack under Feld Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt. Information Minister Joseph Goebbels released documents today, May 10, 1941 that armored spearheads have occupied Brussels, capital of Belgium, and the government has been forced to capitulate. In a side note Goebbels also revealed the invasion of Luxembourg and The Netherlands by Army Groups B and G flanking the main effort of Army Group A. "As these countries and citizens are of Aryan decent, the peoples of the Reich gladly incorporate them into the greater German Empire of the European continent." Goebbels added. ..and continued.."Now the invincible armies of the Reich are poised to lead the French into captivity for their foolish provocations of the Versailles Treaty, justice is near!" Reports continue to trickle in of giant armored leviathans roaming the countryside on the Belgian - French border, but with no substantiation from UK or French news services these reports must be considered rumors, currently.

I get it, although this is the way I would like to see it work. If I want a fully escorted strike I would set up another CV or land based fighters in "escort" mode and my strike CV in TAC mode. This would be the configuration if I suspected full strength, teched interceptors and I get two strikes and two escorts. This mode serves to minimize my aircraft losses/vessel damage, hopefully, while getting the benefit of maximum strike damage, but uses two units. If I'm positive or the probability is high of no interceptors or interceptors of low grade either in numbers and/or tech, then I would use the mixed mode and get two strikes, semi escorted. This mode also gives me a semi CAP so that my CV doesn't suffer as much damage on the enemy return strike that I believe is an automatic calculation, true? This configuration gives me a medium between the full TAC strike and the full escort stike but uses only one CV. If I want maximum strike damage potential and I don't care about aircraft losses or return vessel damage then I select TAC/naval mode and go in with both strikes using only one CV. The deal is, I want maximum flexibility for two strikes at my disposal as I can always choose not to send in the second strike.

Maybe I need a little clarification of what the theory is behind the double strike carrier feature. Assuming most CAGs have a compliment of one third fighters and two thirds attack aircraft are we simulating the entire group has the ability to sortie twice or does the fighter and attack group do separate missions?

Anybody up for a game of PanzerArmee Afrika?

That's interesting Bill. So..if I'm reading your statement correct, my carrier in mixed mode launches a strike and it is intercepted, then my second strike planes do an escort using up my second strike? Sorry, I may be a little dense here, but I thought the mixed mode included an escort of fighters with my dive and torpedo bombers. For some reason...I don't get it! Are you saying that in mixed mode I only have a CAP and an unescorted strike force? If that is true, I must say, IIRC, carrier strikes would usually involve a split of the fighter contingent(if enemy CVs were suspected) into a group that performed CAP and the rest as escorts. I was assuming that is what is meant by "mixed" mode, perhaps I should read the manual.

Throughout the winter months of 39-40 many preparations continued amidst the all quiet on the western front. The Luftwaffe engaged in recon missions and pulled off a surprise raid of Gamelin's HQ in the vicinity of Verdun. Damage reports conceded serious disruption to the French forward communications. Der Fuhrer announced a secret operation to annex Denmark that turned into a mini-invasion all brought about by clandestine forces, that Fuhrer, what a jokester, not including the High Command. Throughout the winter, diplomatic maneuvering has just about brought the Italians into the effort, they were preparing for an invasion through the Alps on last reports. Deep in the Emperor's palace a final strategy for persecution of the Co-territorial Sphere has been forged and orders given to manufacturing facilities for the needed war machines. I have to say there was a heated debate between the Imperial Army and Navy, but finally they have concluded the designs. Back in Europe, storm clouds have gathered causing an unplanned delay in the launching the assault on France. The delay will not last long, it is April 1940.

Its also interesting that when using mixed mode, carriers only get one strike. I'm wondering that since the effectiveness of the strike is diminished what is the reasoning for not allowing the second strike? If you are spotting and launching a similar number of aircraft in the CAP and TAC mode and more(double?) aircraft in the mixed mode, why would the strike effectiveness be less?

Tom has anybody answered your call?

The Jap CVs are very effective when working from ports that have anti-Air applied. You'll need LR to give them the flexibility, but if you cover them with your fighters and use them in the limited area around the home islands shuffling from one port to another, they can put a big dent in any amphibs coming in for landings. They're very good with naval tech 3, as are the TACs, but again you'll need advanced fighters for cover coupled with anti-air units.

Its fortunate that Scott isn't running the show! I'm sure we'll be addressing the eastern question a bit later on, the UK and France have to be dealt with first....something...about a dream I had involving a two front war. Nov. 24, 1939 Berlin: Reichstag ministers are meeting to consider diplomatic overtures and planning for Fall Gelb continues. Much Polish equipment has been arriving in Wehrmacht shops for conversions to more useful weaponry and factories across the Reich are now running two 8 hour shifts to produce the necessary war materials. Italy continues with a slow build up of its military as recon elements fan across the eastern med. In Tokyo the Emperor has convened meetings of the top army and navy advisors on how to best spread Japan's influence creating the East Asian Territorial CoProsperity Sphere, EAT CoPS.

I think MJY make a very good point. Hubert is there something you could adjust? Are there other considerations here?

An interesting 'what if" decision script awaited me at the final surrender of the Poles. The question was whether the Germans would like to honor the Ribbentrop/Molotov pact of nonaggression and accept the partition of Poland or since my Panzers were located in the East, continue on? Well, I decided to play it historical and not violate the treaty, but now I've been thinking about it. Obviously I believe it would have meant immediate hostilities with the USSR, which is interesting. So to continue this parody of WW2, I'll ask the forum, and depending on whether Happycat will allow me to do the turn over, should I go East? This is it forum...your one chance to play God, and change the events, rewrite history. So is it East or West?

Welcome to the world of SC, Razz. You are truly in for a unique gaming experience, perfect IMO for us older guys. Don't forget to open up the even more rewarding play of a human opponent. Don't worry about being a newbie we all had to start somewhere. Good Luck!

How dare you question the integrity of the reports from our most beloved and illustrious Goebbels, minister of propaganda.....oops!:eek:

Is this the same mod that cleaned my clock on Expert+2 when I played against the Allied AI?

Great suggestion John. This would be one of those assets that would get attached to the garrisoning unit, like AT, Art, AA, Engineers, etc. Something like the Aichi E13A1a seaplane, 1128 nautical mile range, that were stationed all over the Pacific islands. Another reason to maintain a presence in the outer islands.

Mein Fuehrer, it grieves to report that there is much resistance in Poland and alas Warsaw fights on. We have recently reorganized Runstedt's AGS to include all 3 PanzerKorps and they will soon reduce the Polish capital to rubble. I can report that the 8th Army has taken Lodz after a furious assault by the 1st Panzers. Krakow has also fallen as the VII Corps cut off all retreat of the Polish defenders, thousands are now prisoners. We have embarked the Slovak AT south on recon missions to the Vistula and no contact from the enemy was reported. In the same period Von Bock's AGN accepted the surrender of the Poles in Danzig and the Corridor is as it should have always been, a part of the Fatherland. I have also met with Speer and have agreed upon a pattern of production for our Fall Gelb plan's execution slated for early Spring. And what of the Japanese Mein Fuehrer? "Sorry to report......only silence, although our naval attache' has reported top secret research is going on in various arenas." This is of course only rumors, Herr Schneider. "Well very good Schneider....considering"....I assure you that I did not antipate the quick collapse of the Poles as you did, and it is consoling that casualties have been light. Il Duce has informed me that he has directed his navy to recon the Eastern Med in anticipation of our future actions, although we still believe the Allied governments will concede our Polish position even though Canada has joined their declaration." "Now back to the front with you, the Aryan Nation has every confidence in your abilities". "Jawohl........."(click heels...Nazi salute)

Look Blashy, please don't read me wrong, I would never diminish the effort you have made here and in many ways SC has gone down the path we have both agreed upon. Here's where we digress, you consider an Axis victory "impossible", now I know you mean that in a literal sense and I somewhat agree, but theoretically.....well..you know. Remember facts and circumstances can intertwine in such a manner that truth can be stranger then fiction, but you remain adamant. I'm not saying you're wrong, what I'm saying is SC will evolve into a modding platform that exists in the same mold as TOAW, and we need the tools of that flexibility. No doubt, witness what Hubert has already created and realize that is the SC future. Blashy, you are a very valuable part of that future, but IMO, you need to display a little more hypothetical variation in your pondering of WW2 events, probabilities and possibilities. Is that really so bad! Blashy, you have to consider an unfolding of history that is not limited by the WW2 timeline. Yes, in those constraints, Germany could not have achieved an operational A-Bomb, but I must remind you the same referals you make to Germany's economy you could make to post WW2 USSR's also. You do realize that the Soviet Union did not research the A-Bomb from scratch, but stole the technology, Germany is fully capable of that endeavor also. Again, in your view of the parameters of 1941 with productivity focussed on war effort, I too agree, no matter what the blunders. My question is the commitment to "focus" on the war effort in which the USA is highly lacking even though its leaders(FDR) are headed in that direction. The question is how can that be derailed to a certain extent, because if it can be done, then you have more parity in resources, Allies vs Axis. The USA is paramount to the Allied advantage, so the "what if" circumstances, and hence the victory conditions of a Global SC will hinge upon their activation, the later, the better for the Axis. OK, this post is way past its prime, perhaps it is time to start a new thread about what the Global SC conditions and the mechanics of the game should revolve around. I'm not a beta, I have to guess at what progress/stages you guys are in, but to leave out the forum, I think is a big mistake. Thanks to dhucul for providing some direction.