SeaMonkey

Sandy, third thread down in this forum, "Nupremal World Campaign", its in the repository. I'd like to get another game going but currently I've got Rambo with version 3 and don't want to get the newest(5) since its not backward compatible, already did that w/1.03 and sacrificed my game with Happycat.

Vypuero, if you're concerned about naval actions being too surface oriented, you could drop the air defense CTV of the 3, DD,Ca,BB and elevate the naval attack value of CVs to a point where even with one strike they will take out a surface unit. If the land based air also has a very strong NA and a similar capability of harming surface units and double strikes, then you see them as an asset for island basing. Next, the amount of attrition that CV's CAGs take has to be diminished, and will be with the one strike feature, so that they can remain on station for multiple turns, say no more than three to four at the most. Now they represent a dangerous unit, especially in groupings and inconjunction with inrange land based air when faced with enemy naval assets, but still needing protection from the land and CV based air opposition.

Even better, Vypuero, when we're playing, if there are certain areas you'd like us to focus on, perhaps the players will tend to look at those arenas. We just need a little instruction.

See JJR took advantage of Vypuero's pattern of play, no need to change anything, that's why I'm saying, you have to be careful. Rambo is an excellent beta tester because he's willing to play "out of the box", doesn't matter if you win or lose. Testing is about how you play the game. Vypuero, you have no doubt created an excellent campaign, best I've ever played, shows real imagination and of course your historical perspective is very good. Because it is such an "in depth" scenario its going to require a lot of testing and people have to be willing to play it out to the end, don't be presumptuous, this is a work of art, it takes awhile to complete. As far as the islands and CV vs land units interaction, I've posted on this before about the need to make Land based air particularly effective against naval vessels. This makes a player invest heavily in LR, AT, and NW, and makes island basing desirable, but as Sombra always brings up you have the problem of land units being decimated by LB air. One thing I can suggest is leave CVs with one strike and their current effectiveness vs land units. Reduce the initial CTV(SA,TA) of land based air to 0 against land units, but give them double strikes. This way you have to research them to get their effectiveness up vs land units and they aren't so overpowering early, just like it was historically in WW2. With only two levels of AT, the best they can get to is 2 SA / TA. make the AT research cost 200, like you did the IW, its effectively the same thing. Cut the numbers of them available to players making them have to operate them around, there are lots of ways to do this as Hubert has so graciously provided. In my perspective, mobile units like Tanks give you the ability to bring a lot of combat power to the battle and in the time periods encompassed by SC turns its appropriate for them to have 2 strikes. Why should air units not have the same feature, they are after all more mobile than tanks, only their numbers lag and that's why CVs, who's aircraft loads are low vs LB air should only get one strike. Just suggestions, I know more people will provide better ideas, this is a start.

Vypuero, Colin is right on with this one. I understand you want balance, we all do, but you have to examine each individual gamey occurrence and make the adjustments. Why was Rambo able to use carriers so effectively? If it was because of their land unit attacks then that needs to be curtailed, much like you did with artillery. I'm playing Rambo at the moment and I made a special note to follow his artillery with my fighters and bombers where ever they are attacking. Seems a good counter for me to train my airforces(artillery has no air defense) by attacking them at every opportunity, I built extra air just for this. You think artillery is devastating with experience, get a load of my AFs with experience! See, was it because his opponent failed to produce a counter that was available? I'm assuming you were his opponent, the specifics of each incident needs to be examined. Obviously you and Rambo are playing this scenario numerous times from both sides and that is great, but I for one would like some more insight to what is happening in each game as far as what needs adjusting or what y'all think needs adjusting. Don't need the AARs, just a reflection on what might be gamey circumstances. Essentially that is why I would like to get more of the community involved in this scenario as it is the future for SC. We can hash these things out now before the "official" version comes out. I'm trying to play this campaign as much as possible and make notes, but its hard to devote the time. Your decision events are very good, I'm really impressed, but the consequences of them perhaps needs to tweeked a bit also as they are hypothetical for the decision that wasn't actually taken. An historical community is a must for this, I wish Jersey John was here playing this thing, Desert Dave too, pzgndr...where are you? We all need to be looking at the Vypuero campaign, this is a wonderful opportunity for SC development. Happycat are you ready for another game?

Another good idea, emf. You know I kind of like the specialization uniqueness of HQ, but I'd like to think of them as an offensive or defensive bonus on the order you have suggested, much like using an "offensive chit" in WiF to give the player initiative. Have you ever noticed that in some SC turns, it seems that all the randomizers(die rolls) go against you or for your attacks, the majority anyhow. Sometimes, doesn't matter what kind of odds you think you have, how much of an advantage, you just don't get the rolls, right? Sometimes I see the writing on the wall and I suspend any remaining attacks as not likely to be advantageous. Am I just imagining this? If not, think about that kind of luck, not being so randomized, sure there's always the chance things go against you, but what if you could help yourself assure that they wouldn't, that little advantage. You bring the right force mix, the right commanders' emphasis in the form of their HQs(staff), the commitment of supplies and resources and you get those odds to your side....of course always subject to FoW and your enemies force profile(the ever present "wrench" ready to be thrown into the gears). Think of it, your opponent gets his turn, but he knows, you know, you have the initiative and most of his attacks will be concluded obtusively, better for him to surrender the battlefield.

Here's one that would be very consequential, almost forgot. Allow the deselecting of a ground unit, saving its APs, and then reselecting later to use the remaining action points. This feature will be in WI's, "Time of Wrath".

That ought to do it, finally a reason to get the islands into play. I don't care if its not exactly realistic, the effect is. What about the Italians using the Suez before their entry? Were they "locked out" historically?

There is a way to get US air assets to the European/African theater without paying the operate MPPs, but only after USA has occupied/liberated a city in that area. The can be placed right from the build Q.

Excellent Colin, and it reminds me, instead of abolishing the engineer unit, allow it to upgrade tiles as far as efficiency/supply purposes. Engineers should be able to construct roads and extend rail heads and while we're at it this feature of airfields in every tile, other than water, needs to have an engineer adjacent for viable air unit basing at least for rough, mountainous or terrain costing more than 1 AP. Finally, the amphibious assault from a sea tile. A lot of room here for innovative ideas, but I believe this is an operation conducted only by smaller SC units, special forces and corps only, with the appropriate upgrade = training and equipment.

Dang it Larry, I could just send you the 50 meg Zip file, forgot I had it on a flash drive. I'm sure Vypuero wouldn't mind? Send me an email, bradtap@aol.com and I'll send it on along.

OK, expanding on the post over in the Nupremal World Campaign thread, we need some movement changes. My 2 cents is nonmotorized units should be able to move 1 tile no matter what the conditions/terrain. It doesn't seem unrealistic that a "foot" unit could travel 50 miles in a week, two weeks, a month. Would be a good reason to always keep some units around without the mobility enhancement. It feels right!

This is not a balanced scenario, gameplay wise, but I think there is an equal chance for either player to win, like Tim said, Japan with a minor victory by holding on. I really like the campaign, but I see where some players are not as attracted to playing a collapsing defense. It seems you need to have a sense of timing as Japan to begin your extraction from the mainland, most players, myself included, wait a little too long. The Allies on the other hand can just bludgeon their way along, pretty much playing haphazardly as the Abombs can pull them out with the enormous damage to the garrisoning units of the cities that are hit. That feature allows an Allied player the opportunity to land and take those cities if he has some amphibs strategically positioned. Summarily, the Japanese have some exciting play early and face a good struggle with China, Burma's really tough, India impossible, but Australia....well things can happen down under. Late game, its easy to get distracted and want to move along to another game. For the Allies its pretty much a fun game throughout. Like I've said earlier, PTO was necessary to examine the features for the Global version and test the mechanics.

It seems that in Taiwan, the corps that is there with an AP=1(supply =<50%) can enter the mountains, terrain cost = 3? Explanation please!

Not only is the balance apparent, there seems to be multiple strategies to win with for both sides. Is that your experience Rambo? No cookie cutter!

A slight oversight on my part U8, sorry, thanks for the corrections:).............at work, third 14 hour day in a row, got a little distracted trying to escape into the SC realm. Should have used "efficiency" also instead of effectiveness. Hey....but at least we get it!

So Stormbringer, is that your favorite Deep Purple Album?

U8led, supply is not that difficult if you keep a few basic things in mind. 1. Always try to keep a friendly unit adjacent to your most extended units, even just keeping the corners of the tiles touching. Maintain that connection to a supply source, HQ, Cities, Ports. 2. Remember supply is diminished by the amount of the movement penalty for each terrain type, which is negated by roads, roads count only 1. 3. Your primary source of supply (HQs) have to trace a line of tiles, adjusted for terrain effects, back to a supply source no less than the amount of % effectiveness divided by 10 of that secondary supply source(city or port). Example: Lets say you have an HQ(primary supply) two tiles from secondary supply source(city/port) that is 50% effectiveness and that HQ is 2 tiles from your supply questionable combat unit. If one of the tiles from the secondary supply to the primary supply(HQ) has a terrain movement cost of 2 action points(AP) and one tile is clear or a road(AP=1) then that is a total of 3 AP/tile trace, so 50%/10 - 3 = 2, HQ is in supply and will have supply of 8 or 80%. If the road/clear tile happened to be a mountain(no road) then its AP = 3 and there would be no supply for HQ(HQs always have minimum of 5 supply). 50%/10 - (2 + 3) = 0. Now from the HQ to the unit you use the same application, but the amount of supply is degraded by the total AP/terrain movement cost of the tiles you trace through to the combat unit. If the HQ had 8 supply(able to trace to secondary >0) and the two tiles it traces supply through are clear or a terrain negated by a road(the one the unit occupies) then supply is 6(8-2) for the combat unit. Mainly you just have to have an understanding about terrain cost for movement and HQ(primary) supply knowing that HQs can have only 3 levels of supply, 5(all by themselves, cut off from secondary), 8(secondary connection <=5) or 10(secondary >=8). Now just sum/add the terrain movement cost(APs)of connecting tiles from(subtract) the HQ's supply level and you have the combat unit's supply level assuming it is not cut off by enemy unit's Tiles/Zones of Control(ZoCs). Simple!

Come on McGlu...don't get stuck in the past....get PTO right here and get with the best global scenario out there. You won't be sorry!

Looking at this won / loss record it seems this campaign is pretty well balanced between Axis and Allies. I'm wondering, what is the usual length of game time these scenarios are decided in? And.. welcome back Rambo....where's Kuni?

Fair enough Scott, but I'm not talking about the present diplomatic model. I'm invisioning something where different countries, dependent upon their historical levels of influence locally and regionally, exercise the manipulation of other countries. For example, say a country that historically exercises a lot of influence worldwide, Britain, makes an investment in the current medium, chits, but also moves a strong naval contingent into proximity of the targeted country. Let's say they also land some troops nearby on a cooperative allie's shores simulating some training maneuvers. Such "strong arm" tactics inconjunction with a monetary consideration generates a situation where the targeted country takes a greater percentage leaning to the "program". The factors are all entered into the equation and the outcome calculated per turn. What are some other diplomatic parameters for the equation's variables? Further, imagine an "incident" occurs when two different theological perspectives are trying to exercise influence on the same country, a naval mishap occurs. Wars don't necessarily need to start from a DoW.

OK time for some controversy. Now I know there is a large crowd of SC players that like historical sets, and I agree with the context, but for a game it is necessary to bring a variation of attainable victory conditions within the grasp of either side. I know that SC is a wargame, but perhaps it is time to leave a bit of the combat behind and use a more subtle path to victory, like Diplomacy. I for one very rarily tap into the diplomatic variations and so maybe I'm a bit at a disadvantage here presenting this deviation for SC Global. So I'd liked to hear from some of you that have embarked upon a serious diplomatic effort. What I'm saying is, even though it could end games early, if you just start with no one at war, would we lend too much of an ahistorical edge to SC by allowing more variation through the diplomatic model?

I like the way HQs are handled, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be an improvement. As far as supply is concerned, I believe either it could be handled by the communication net like board games do following a continuous path of tile/hexes to a source(either primary or secondary) or you have a counter that represents a supply dump which is movable and expendable. Now the supply dump either operates as a continuous accumulation point providing normal supply or you can expend it using offensive emphasis which gives the effected units additional combat prowess. For HQs....well I think they manage the asset allocations for their controlled combat units putting additional factors at those units disposal, giving them higher morale and readiness, among other advantages.

Its a good point MJY, and I think it would be a good idea that a high level of intelligence would be worth a tech advance in a category you are not necessarily researching. Makes sense and it would be a further incentive to invest in a tech area that goes largely ignored. Good suggestion.

Anyone reading this thread that has not at least looked at Vypuero's Nupremal World Campaign is doing themselves a great injustice. This is one of the best....no ....it is the best World campaign to date. It is definitely a showcase of the SC editorial features, very imaginative and captivating to play. Get it at cmmods...before he shuts down, version 1.03 is out.