winkelried

bizarr - tested it myself and it works. testing on flat grass. which guns did you test? i did just the PaK 40

especially since they were beaten in sub-marine warfare (and other stuff) by some obscure British homosexual mathematician history is sometimes pure sarcasm.

Don't forget the beer

i think you are talking about war crimes too? there indeed they were (almost) unreached.

BTW there is a good mini-series going on on German TV "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter" - maybe you should have a look at it ... some of the critics call it the "German version of Band of Brothers" ...

and the rings look so cool on the Wochenschau ...

thanks for the flowers don't worry - life B is a bit more important than CMBN

during a lull sure, but not under fire. as I said show me RL examples (not Wochenschau propaganda ) and I will believe you ... I know none. even in well prepared positions ATGs were left in their firing position during the artillery fire 'cause there was no way to bring them from a cover back there after the artillery firing ceased until the targets arrived on the position - and here (and only here now) I agree with you that ATGs are undermodelled in CM. We can't keep the crew in cover and get them to man the gun as soon as the artillery has ceased firing.

me neither only talking about PBEM. Some regulars on the forum can tell ... maybe Probably you should read: JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II: Combat Tactics (ISBN 0-7643-0225-6) then you wouldn't write such crap. The Germans (!!!) calculated (based on their experience) that the 88 L/56 had a 100% hit probabilty up to 1000m with the Pz.Gr. 39 under training conditions. With other ammo and under battle conditions this first hit probability dropped down to between 62% to 93%. Above 1000 meters (again under battle conditions) first shot hit rates dropped steeply to 74%@1500m, 50%@2000m, 31%@2000m etc - and that's again Pz.Gr. 39. Other ammo dropped down to 20%. See my comment above. When you need to move an ATG under battle conditions you're cooked anyway. Show me a RL battle (with proper sources) where this has been done successfully. BTW there was a reason why the Germans built all the Marders, Nashorns etc. It is called mobility and HE protection (at least against close hits) ...

in addition you don't know what stood on the receiving end. e.g. some BT-7 or T-26 might be in the count there are some interesting fights against ATGs in the battle of the bulge (e.g. the U.S. defense of Stoumont) or in operation Nordwind (e.g. PaK 43 and PaK 40 at Herrlisheim) which show that, when properly deployed, ATGs can wreak quite some havoc even late in the war.

yes you can consitently. but you need to stick to some rules: As Sgt Schulz put it earlier - "Keyhole or die". Limit the area of fire to avoid the get return fire from a large front. A single ATG is no ATG. Use them at least in pairs - even better create Pakfronts. With this you increase the hit probability and your survival rate in a rich target environment. Use the ATG in flanking positions whenever possible. You have a larger (compare the front view to a side view of a tank) and softer target area in front of you. And win a few seconds until the enemy has turned his turret(s). ATG are ambush weapons, they can not survive a duel. They have to emplaced accordingly. Be aware that when you fire your cover is blown and the ATG will be fired at with whatever the enemy has. So choose your first shot wisely. ATG need support: at least some infantry to provide protection against enemy infantry. Artillery helps too - especially something that gets smoke into the area to provide a screen if there is too much firepower on the opposing side. All those rules are basically about getting superior firepower into the kill zone. That is to say to have more guns firing than tanks you are firing at. Stick to these rules you can get pretty good results with ATGs - at least I do

first: rate of fire often are theoretical values - i noted a practical ROF for the Flak 36 of 12-15 rounds per minute. i'll check for the source. in the game i measured for Flak 36 used in an offboard artillery role a ROF of 12 rounds per minute - which would coincide with my values above. onboard Flak 36 has effectively a lower ROF with 10 rounds per minute. as i usually play WEGO with 1 minute timeslots i prefer the lower ROF since the ammo loadout of an Flak 36 is just 30-35 rounds AP so it would be empty in 2 minutes with the practical ROF of even earlier with the ROF you mentioned. So in the end i prefer the ingame ROF of 10 rounds per minute ...

Don't know what you are talking about. The inside traverse worked in the recent tests i made - just did them with the Pak 40 (where the angle is +/- 28 degrees by the way). worked well and fast. maybe you can check yourself and give some feedback on this?

not sure about that. the 88s were used against high altitude targets firing with extensive fire control equipment and as batteries. would probably fire some kind of barrage against the bombers. for the turn ratr you would need to accelerate 2-3 tons and then stop this mass again. against inertia ... fun

some examples in muddy terrain, but it doesn't seem easy. one of the pictures with the crew lying on the split carriage imagine turing this bastard here they fire w/o fixed carriage

fully understood. trying to get info about this. usually a ATG on a split carriage has a "natural" traverse. E.g. the PaK 43/41 has such a traverse of +/- 28 degrees. But what is outside asks for turning the whole gun- Yes and no. There are some photographs where just a member of the gun crew is lying on each of the carriage arms. but if this was common practice or even feasible or just a good photo topic - i can't say. but a gun which was not anchored would risk to move in a uncontrollable way when firing. on the photos where you see this at least four men if not more are lifting and pushing/turning the gun. The guns at 75mm and above all weigh considerably more than one ton. even when well balanced there will be quite some resistance when turning the wheels even on hard ground. Probably an animation issue. The crew doesn't heave the gun, just crawling around it. But the turning doesn't take all time. E.g. the 75mm PaK 40 takes ~40 seconds to turn, after the order is issued. And then another ~10 seconds to adjust and fire. I would guess, that issuing the order ("Achtung Panzer auf 3 Uhr, Bekämpfen"), getting the crew into position and begin to turn may take another 10 to 15 seconds. So the net turn time would be somewhere between 20 and 30 seconds (meaning 3 degrees per second) for a 1.4 ton gun. OK? probably - certainly not too far off.

don't understand what doesn't make sense to you john the 7.62 pak 38® weighs 1.7 tons and has a split carriage. the 8.8 pak 43 weighs 3.6 tons and has a cruciform carriage with a 360 degree angle the 8.8 pak 43/41 weighs 4.6 tons and has a split carriage. so the differences in the measurements between the guns make sense. how close they are to reality? no idea. still searching.

measured the following in the game (90 degree turn, time until first shot fired): 50mm PaK = ca. 54 seconds 88mm PaK 43 = ca. 56 seconds 75mm PaK 40 = ca. 62 seconds 76mm PaK 36® = ca. 68 seconds 88mm FlaK 36 = ca 78 seconds 88mm PaK 43/41 = ca. 122 seconds all guns regular, on flat ground, area fire 90 degrees at approx 700m. timing varies +/- several seconds.

i ran a test with three batteries of 150mm Nebelwerfer against an U.S. tank batallion - near misses yield often (slight, but accruing) track damage. had quite a few direct hits - e.g. engine desk penetrations with killed engine and total loss or as another example even a upper front hull penetration (!!!!!) which yielded a total loss including crew! no underrepresentation IMHO.

i always achieved pretty good effects with artillery against tanks. preferred guns are the 25pdr due to its high ROF and the US 155mm howitzer ... still missing the onmap version though

BTW - love those backgrounds - installed ! thx a lot.

Red No 65 is probably 1940/1941 too -a Pz 35(t) leading Pz IV short ...

14.May 1940 - 1. Panzer Regiment crosses the Maas at Floing close to Sedan. Not definitely sure, but i would say a Beretta M1938 (MAB 38 Moschetto Automatico Beretta)

in my experience with the overlay, there is no necessity for grayscale or other stuff. usually i use a good 1:25'000 or better map as overlay and then can follow height lines pretty quickly. There is not too much time consumed with this. there is other stuff as I mentioned in an earlier post which would really speed up map making.

and it was Andy Grove who wrote "only the paranoid survive"