Vanir Ausf B

How the heck can we be running the same version of the same game and have different textures? Well, at least mine work

How do you get the tri-color camo Lynx?

Very strange. I'm also running 2.12 and don't have that. Stranger still is that my Lynx has completely different textures.

Yeah, I can' make heads or tails of what Steve said. His talk of "hull blockage" suggests that they thought my test was done under different conditions than it actually was. The shot trap isn't even on the hull :confused: I'm also puzzled by the claim that one ricochet penetration blows my whole theory out of the water, despite my statement that I had seen 2 of them in past testing. I never claimed that they are impossible, merely far too rare. It sounds like Charles won the lottery 33 seconds into his test and then declared problem solved based on an extremely small sample size. I should have some time over the next few days to do one last (hopefully) test. I'll remove the, eh, "blockage" from the lower hull and see if that is magically protecting the turret. It's a pain to test like that since the center of mass aimpoint will move down onto the upper hull which makes turret hits much less frequent.

What is "WALB"?

I play on a 3 (or 4? i don't remember) year-old Asus laptop, 15". I7 quad, 4 GB system RAM, Geforce GTX 260M with 1 GB of video memory. It does fine on improved/best.

In that case, yes, I will change my theory. Here are two pics of one of the test Panthers taken from directly in front of one of the Sherman tanks at 800 meters, zoomed in 20x so as to be visible. The first pic is from view level 1, the bottom pic from view level 2 (about level with the Sherman main gun). The shaded area on the underside of the mantlet is the approximate area of the shot trap, which I have highlighted in red in the second pic. I don't seen any reason why that little mound obscuring the lower hull should prevent hits several feet above on the lower mantlet. Any suggestions?

Well it's about time you lived up to your name.

I don't understand. The Panthers are only partial hull down. Meaning only the lower hull is obscured. During my testing I saw many hits on the upper hull, which is below the shot trap. The entire mantlet is visible and pretty much in the middle of the visible center of mass. By "move forward" do you mean he reduced the range from 800 meters?

CMx1 was more "beer & pretzels". Some people feel CMx2 is too much "work". It is more demanding of the player in some ways, but it offers the type of work I enjoy

I think the fog looks better, but the problem with some textures popping through it is still present, as Childress's screenie shows.

I was able to find the 2.11 changelog using Google cache. Setting asside the items in the 2.12 changelog that are listed twice for some reason, the fog change is new. But that is the only difference between the 2.11 and 2.12 logs.

There is one. But, correct me if I'm wrong, weren't all those changes listed already in 2.11? I don't see any of new 2.12 changes listed (Deploy bug, Jpz IV armor, Sherman III texture, ect)

The bug that was preventing heavy weapons teams with covered arcs from deploying is fixed. It is strange that there is no changelog. I hope this isn't the start of a trend. But otherwise so far so good. Now about the Panther shot trap...

Isn't the HP Pavilion a laptop? Good luck trying to add a video card to that...

In May of last year I tested partial hull down Panther As at range 107 meters. Out of 469 hits on the mantlet I got one ricochet penetration. When I was doing hit location testing on the Tiger and Panther in June of last year I recorded one ricochet penetration out of 1129 hits on the Panther mantlet. The testing was done on Panther Ds at various ranges and hull positions. The one ricochet took place against a partial hull down tank at 100 meters. So adding in the test from this thread I have 2 ricochet penetrations out of 2234 hits. I would say you were extraordinary unlucky, Womble

Not true. On the rare occasions I have seen ricochet penetration in the past the "RICOCHET" hit text is displayed on the hull penetration. The exact text is "RICOCHET: FORWARD TOP HULL PENETRATION" (I wrote it down )

If you can find some statistics on the frequency that would be great. But I've never seen any and am dubious that they exist. Although the likelihood is somewhat speculative there does not seem to be any debate that shot traps did in fact trap shots I have a book, Panther vs Sherman by Steven Zaloga that has a picture of a Panther used by the US for testing. There is a hit along the lower edge of the mantlet that the caption says ricocheted down onto the hull. That page is viewable online via Google books: Link Although the Panther had an especially bad shot trap it wasn't the only tank that had one. The Tiger I did too. The only Tiger I in the world still in working condition was captured after being disabled by a hit on the turret ring that ricocheted off the bottom edge of the mantlet (pic below) I don't know. Not that I am aware of. For what it's worth, Rexford once said that size and shape of the projectile is a factor: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=334656&postcount=4 This is why modern tank designs don't worry about shot traps much anymore. It changes hit distribution. I tested with the Panthers partially hull-down behind a 1 meter berm because that pushes the visible center of mass aim point up towards the turret, which greatly speeds up testing :cool: Tiger 131 hit location (6 lbr fired from a Churchhill tank):

It's based on purchase points. EDITED to add: Actually, it's probably both. I've never really looked at it that close, but my guess is that it is a ratio of total points spent and the value of any individual unit in that ratio is based on it's purchase point value.

Do you have a specific example of this?

Sounds like a job for a beta tester

Well, yes. Which is a type of unit The enemy can see right through the bunker, always. Whether or not they can shoot though it is situational. If the rules for bunkers are the same as for tanks then your tank should be able to shoot through the bunker at the AT gun. If it can't then BFC should take a look at that.

If the AT gun can see your tank then your tank can see the gun but just hasn't spotted it yet because LOS is always reciprocal. The game engine considers bunkers to be units, not buildings, so they do not block LOS. They also do not block LOF for friendly units, but will block LOF for enemy units under some circumstances.

In case anyone wants to take a look. Scenario file https://www.dropbox.com/s/sgpsjtzfm6cfvhy/gunnery%20shot%20trap.btt Save game file https://www.dropbox.com/s/wv105nljlogmxsv/gunnery%20shot%20trap.bts

Yes. There was a note in the 1.11 readme related to it But the very small number of ricochet penetrations I have ever seen on the Panther all occurred prior to that. Including other tests I have done since then I have put well over 1000 rounds onto the Panther A mid mantlet at various ranges without seeing one. Given that I tend to use the Panther A mid in all my tests I suppose it's possible that it's a problem with that particular model only, but I think that unlikely.