c3k

Let's take this one at a time. Lethal radius. That does NOT mean that 100% of the people within that distance will die. Let's say a grenade has a 15m lethal radius. That's an area of about 750m^2. I could easily put 750 men there. One grenade going off in their midst will NOT kill 750 men, despite all of them being inside the "lethal" radius. That proves that lethal radius does NOT mean death. It is a statistical probability of causing lethal casualties. Usually given as 50% chance vs. a standing individual, if my memory serves. (Maybe I'm forgetting the specific %. Shrug.) Casualty radius is the same: a probabilistic statement. It speaks to the energy of most of the wounding chunks of metal. It's all bell curves. If I stand 100m from a grenade detonating, I'm probably okay. I sure wouldn't want to do it, but if that's what happens, shrug. Otherwise, one grenade would wound every soldier in a football field. Defense would be easy. My statement that s-mines were, essentially, equivalent to a hand grenade is true. The s-mine was lighter, but more effective given its weight due to the airburst and guaranteed proximity of victim. A grenade has no such guarantee, but it does have thicker metal chunks (except for so-called "offensive" grenades such as the German stick grenades), and more filler. However, a grenade may land on the other side of a tree, or in a gopher hole. So, yes, "essentially" the same. (If you've ever heard of an entire squad being killed by an s-mine, I'm eager to hear about it. Absent evidence to the contrary, I'll stand by that. The filler is too light, the casing too thin. One man between you and the s-mine would keep you safe.) Ken

... if you skinflints had tipped a bit higher the LAST time your lot were here, maybe you'd have been served before the cook went home!

I'll argue. A single s-mine NEVER killed an entire squad. You're (surprisingly) conflating a possible casualty radius with an ensured casualty radius. A single grenade has a quite large casualty radius. That does not mean that everyone within that radius should (or would) be hit. It does mean that you are not safe within that radius. (Various percentages and target sizes and definitions used by different nationalities at different times to define these radii.) s-mines were, essentially, equivalent to a hand grenade. Being detonated at waist height, after being triggered by contact, means that it's almost guaranteed that at least one man would be heavily wounded (or killed). Ken

Well, yes: we can all agree that Womble can seem quite slippery at times. Ken "who's glad he's never made a typo"

Bringing it all together, the big overview. There are a lot of arrows going on, but this gives the idea of what my plan is. The tanks are the multiplier. Where they go, success will follow. That field (post above w/B3 team in blue entering it) cutting into the village is a good "cut" into the middle of any defense. It splits the village into a front half and a back half. I'll see about holding the front half, and containing/eliminating any Germans in there, while I try to get a foothold in the back half with B2. Then B2 will have the Germans surrounded. Their only "out" will be the light woods out the back left (from my view) of the village. Once they're out there, they'll be easy pickings. Ken

Some overviews and planning after 16 turns. First, C3... Next, their immediate neighbors, B1... In order, B2... And B3...

German tanks had a welded sight aid for the commander built into the front of the cupola. With that, he had a very good method of bore sighting the gunner onto the desired target. Definitely present on the Panther. I'd have to check my Pz IV and VI references. Ken

Minefields:I see a lot of WIA. Perhaps a 1:1 ratio of WIA to KIA. One thing NOT modelled is dying. Death is; dying from wounds is not. If my man gets "red based", he stays a red base WIA all game. 4 hours if that's how long it takes. If he gets KIA'd, well, that's that. Now, if a mine blows a lower leg off, and the poor bastard bleeds out in 20 minutes, how should the game simulate that? Would it be a minefield WIA or KIA? So, perhaps the KIA represent those who have wounds which will lead to death. The sub-topic which has splintered off from the OP, namely wounded to death ratios, is something discussed ad nauseum. You're playing a game (life isn't in the balance); you're pushing harder (and faster) than any real life commander would; you're simulating the pointy edge of the spear, not rear area attrition; sickness, accidents, etc., are not simulated; I'm sure there's more I've forgotten. Ken

I understand: SPOTTED, rather than "organic" casualties should have an effect. Perhaps more caution? Or, would this allow more vigilance and enhanced spotting ability? There could be a wide range of possibilities. Would single gunshot casualties create lesser effects than those hit by HE (or flame)? Etc. Nice touch if it could be done...

Stop fighting it. It's like a riptide, just swim along and try to get to shore later. First, get CMBN + CW. Make sure you UPGRADE and PATCH. They are different processes. Version 2.0 of CMBN is ~= CBFI V1.0. Play it, enjoy it. Then buy GL. You know you're going to do it anyway.

I was in the same camp, avoiding iron because I didn't understand it and didn't want to be hamstrung. Having tried it once, I love it and now use it almost exclusively. It helps me understand how isolated some of my units are.

Keep a LOT of eyes in overwatch. The more, the better. The longer they sit there, the better. Toss a few expendables out front. When they get shot you'll have gained twofold: your spotters will likely get a spot on the enemy, and now you've got some ammo waiting for your troops up ahead.

VaB, Good job. I'm curious about the damage level sustained on the various partial penetrations. If there is a significantly lesser level of damage w/3" hits, perhaps that is the shatter gap? (Of course, true "shatter gap" would not even have a partial penetration.) Thanks for following up on these tests. Ken

The stumbling block: horses.

They have the same UI, the same look, the same feel. If you like CMFI/GL, you're probably going to like CMBN. (Plus, it adds CW and forthcoming Market Garden.) Do it. You'll be happy. Ken

Across the road, same turn, B3 is busy. Here are the Germans that are right up at the bocage (red circle in the overview two posts up): The plan is for one squad, plus, to take this field. I've got B3 stretched a little. They'll have to do for now, but I can relieve them with B1 once the bocage block is cleared. More Tall Grass: And on the side: And with 16 seconds left in the turn, I get this surprise: If I hold position, well, that gives sfhand time. I don't want sfhand to have time. I want him to feel pressure. An unrelenting squeeze that makes him scream at his computer and dread opening up the next turn lest he lay his eyes upon more mayhem and destruction. I will press, oh, yes, I will press. Usually artillery isn't all that effective. This was a big one, 105-ish. Meh. I'll get my men up under it so that sfhand has to call it off. Or I'll find his spotter and kill him. My men thank me.

B1: I've got teams up on the bocage. They wave on their buddies that it's clear. They move up, pause, then plunge into the gap! ...and an explosion rends the air. Crap. Mines. I won't send anyone else through. Yes, I'm getting soft. The survivors make it and start looking around. Meanwhile, I've also sent a team around the back side, along the road. I'll keep them close to the bocage for cover... Crap. More mines. Grr... Anyhow, this is what the first guys found near the sunken drive: I'm not taking any fire here, so it may be clear. I'll have my men find out.

Turn 15, 1:05:00 to 1:04:01 An overview: I'm going to hold on my left (as if I have a choice with all that artillery!), and keep working the right. The plan is to get into the Bocage block with B1. B3 will take the tall grass field. C3 is yellow, B1 is blue, B3 is green.

And thus, Kohlenklau's excellent attempt to get the thread back on track gets derailed, yet again, by a posting by Redwolf showcasing his level of computer software marketing knowledge. Redwolf: Seriously - if you want to debate BFC's marketing strategy, why don't you open a new thread? Ken

Well, that's the left side. Over on the right, not too much happened (comparatively). I moved my tanks up into the "Key Field". I closed up B3's dispersed teams onto the the tall grass field. My demo team (after opening the bocage gap for the tanks) ran back to the "The Dip" to try to give buddy aid and recover some demo charges... Above, you can see that I've moved some teams up on the right side of the initial bocage block, the mirror image of the C3 flankers. Those guys, on the right, are from B1. They will infiltrate and sweep the bocage block. Then they'll have covered positions to put fire across the paved road. The remnants of C3 will move up and join B1 over there and add their firepower to the assault. B2 is still totally uncommitted. I'm across the first road and in a good position to leverage sfhand out of the village whenever I choose. I'll secure this zone and then leapfrog over the next road. That will have me in an "L"; the lateral base extending from C1 on my left, across to C3/B1. The upright will be B3 and, once I commit them, B2. Can I surround sfhand? "Cannae", "Cannea"? Oh, I think I can... Buddies... I'm seeing some motion in the German lines. All the movement I see is from my left to my right. That means it's a race: sfhand is trying to reposition troops. My men look back over their shoulders at me. I interpret the looks on their faces to mean that they are eager for me to order them to rush forward so that they can win the race. How fortunate that I have such eager men!

End of turn: This has been a good turn for sfhand. He's very good with punishing artillery strikes. Of course, as a gamey bastidge, I'm sure he's using ahistoric missions and radio nets! These two missions were well-timed and effective. C1 will be difficult to move forward after this. They will be too brittle to attack, so I'll have to rely on guile, deception, manuever and overwatch. Bah. C2 is in much better shape. C3 took some hard hits on the flankers (closeups below). The rest of C3 is okay. In order to keep my left flank as a viable threat, I'll have to consolidate and adjust their objectives. That wheatfield, with the line of Germans waiting, may not get crossed. I'll move C2 more towards the center road, towards the church. C1 will have to consolidate over by the Stuart on my far left and provide flank support. That'll be hard (moving them together): the HQ and half the platoon is pressed up next to C2. The other half is by the Stuart. I have limited sheltered movement for lateral manuevers. C3 Flankers, closeup, at the end: And some others...

Continuing... My exhortations have worked! They usually do... So, 17 seconds into the turn and my left side is getting impacted heavily. There are lots of pins and cowering. There are a few casualties, but nothing too bad.

^^^ LOL! Well, let's see, where was I? Ah, yes: as the last turn ended there were some objects seen streaking down from the skies. An omen or a portent of the future? Lesser men would pause. I did not. And... Well, I realized my men could be confused by what was happening. I opened the common channel and broadcast a simple message to infuse them with vigor and to renew their courage: ...more, anon.

LOL. Nice to see a bit of decorum in a debate, coupled with a self-deprecating sense of humor. Ken

Plus, their particular 50mm mortar was heavy and complex. Rifle grenades filled the immediate role for the squads, and, as mentioned above, the 81mm mortar rapidly filled the medium role. (It HAD been the heavy mortar. Once the Germans encountered the Russians with their 120mm mortar, they adopted them as their new heavy mortar and started calling the 81mm a medium.)