Soddball
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Posts posted by Soddball
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Sorry, I'm not an ammo expert. I understand that APDS stands for Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot but I wanted to know whether you were referring to the tungsten round or, if not, which round you were referring to.Originally posted by Mr. Tittles:Soddball you need to read closely. I said the APDS was unstable.
I have several sources. Mycenius for one. WO 291/238, The Importance of Gun Dispersion in AP Shooting.
WO 291/1263, Firing Trials, 17pdr Sherman
"Table VI has been constructed which shows the probability of a hit on a target 5' wide by 2' high
(representing a Panther turret) at various ranges using both types of round."
Range (yards) APC % AP/DS %
400 90.5 56.6
600 73.0 34.2
800 57.3 21.9
1000 45.3 14.9
1500 25.4 7.1
Comments and corrections
These assume that the MPI is placed centrally on the target.
The trace from the AP/DS round was not seen in 73% of cases by a flank observer, and in no case from
inside the tank.
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He hasn't posted at all since 22/09 so it's got to be serious.
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The APDS was the tungsten round? Even without Tungsten, the 17pdr could deal comfortably with the majority of German tanks at 1km+ IIRC. Since tungsten was a scarce round anyway, that doesn't really impinge on the 90%+ of rounds fired by the 17pdr.Originally posted by Mr. Tittles:Perhaps not. I read a report that each gun would fire it differently and each gun had to find its own adjustment to using APDS. It also had a poor tracer it seems.
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What are your sources for these claims, in particular the instability of the 17pdr? If the weapon was that unstable, surely the British would have discarded it long before it made up 1/4 of the Shermans in the British forces - not to mention the Achilles and Wolverine?Originally posted by Mr. Tittles:The 17 pdr with APDS is so innacurate that it can be called unstable. It is accurate with APCBC ammo though.
I read that 90mm weapons could target individual soldiers out to several hundred meters. One source claiming that a German helmet could be hit at that range.
Most weapons of this size/barrel length when firing fixed AP ammo could cherry pick the major area regions on a tank type stationary target usually (under 1000m or so). That is, they could target the turret or hull).
The 90mm AP round could hole the mantlet on a Panther at 1000 yds and penetrate the turret vertical face even further.
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I point you once again to the failure of the 75mm halftrack in the desert, Tunisia 1942/43 and ask why you think a 90mm armed one would have been any more successful. </font>Originally posted by Mr. Tittles:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Soddball:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mr. Tittles:
The US M36 Jackson was not available till the Fall of 44 I believe. Any tracked 90mm weapon, even one without a rotating turret, would have been a great AT asset.
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I point you once again to the failure of the 75mm halftrack in the desert, Tunisia 1942/43 and ask why you think a 90mm armed one would have been any more successful.Originally posted by Mr. Tittles:The US M36 Jackson was not available till the Fall of 44 I believe. Any tracked 90mm weapon, even one without a rotating turret, would have been a great AT asset.
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Bear in mind the 75mm gun mounted in a half track that served as a 'tank destroyer' in North Africa. As I'm sure you know their nickname was the 'purple heart box'.
I don't agree with your assertion that a 90mm gun on any platform would have been as useful as, for example, a Sherman Firefly or Achilles.
Perhaps a better solution whilst the 90mm gun became available was for the Americans to manufacture the 17pdr under licence and fit it to more Shermans.
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You're nearly as amusing as bowel surgery without anaesthetic. :mad:
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She has the milkman's ears?Originally posted by Elvis:She looks exactly like her big brother did at that age with one major exception.
Love,
Elvis
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Ah reck'n so, Billy Bob. Ah reck'n so.Originally posted by Snarker:<font color = #8f8f47>Invisible ink? .................................................................................................................................................................................... .................................................................................................................................................................................... .................................................................................................................................................................................... ............................................................................</font>
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You will almost certainly not be able to penetrate its armour. I would suggest that you cover it with smoke and close with infantry.
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Off to the politics forum with you!
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That's just the smoke from the engine. The main gun makes loads more smoke than that.Originally posted by gravy:Nice pictures folke. Thanks.
In this outside shot I see some smoke around the M4. Was it firing a demonstration round?
Do they have any tanks at the museum that you could climb inside?
Rob
They have a couple of cutaway tanks that you can look inside but nothing where you can really get inside.
I've been to Bovington twice now. My pictures came out much worse than Folke's because I suck at taking photos and I have a cheaparse camera with a poor flash. You'd be amazed just how bad the lighting is for photography inside the main buildings.
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Oh, and what a tragedy that would be.Originally posted by Snarker:Don't forget to d/l the walkthrough or you'll be lost.
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Which version??? There's all flavors. </font>Originally posted by Watson & Crick:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Snarker:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Watson & Crick:
Do any of you maggots have Soddball's Inferno scenario? Send it to me or Wally.
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You want low-res, gridded, photorealistic hi-res terrain? :confused:
O-kay.
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Wino a date? A prune, maybe.
I've been in enough trouble this weekend with girls and their aggressive rugby-playing boyfriends to want to avoid big fat sweaty drunken dorks like Wino, thanks.
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Wino a date? A prune, maybe.
I've been in enough trouble this weekend with girls and their aggressive rugby-playing boyfriends to want to avoid big fat sweaty drunken dorks like Wino, thanks.
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Watson and Crick - Because Stupidity Costs Nothing.
Maids of honour are for weddings. This was a Stag party.
DUH
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Watson and Crick - Because Stupidity Costs Nothing.
Maids of honour are for weddings. This was a Stag party.
DUH
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I am £400 poorer after this weekend. I'm glad my friends don't get married too often.
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I am £400 poorer after this weekend. I'm glad my friends don't get married too often.
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Jinkies.
I'm back from a Stag weekend. Hugely expensive, hangovers and wall to wall vomiting, as any party should be. Quad biking rocks.
I managed to poison myself on red wine on Saturday night and nearly got killed for chatting up a rugby player's girlfriend. She was really nice, but probably not worth dying for. Probably.
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Jinkies.
I'm back from a Stag weekend. Hugely expensive, hangovers and wall to wall vomiting, as any party should be. Quad biking rocks.
I managed to poison myself on red wine on Saturday night and nearly got killed for chatting up a rugby player's girlfriend. She was really nice, but probably not worth dying for. Probably.
Sherman 76 vs. Panther
in Combat Mission: Afrika Korps
Posted