gunnergoz

This is not really surprising, since most societies historically grow more decadent just before they fall or get pushed over. People are encouraged to indulge their fancies, be they materialistic or sensual and there is less emphasis upon education, personal responsibility and civic duty. Meanwhile, a predatory minority seizes control of the centers of power and wealth-making and exploit them for all they are worth. The ordinary citizens eventually lose control of the mechanisms of governance but in many cases are to stupid to even understand that it has happened or why. Have a nice day!

That's the one, Sergei, thanks. Much anticipation, equal or greater disappointment.

Spore marks high on my list but probably the all-time champion was a wargame released about the time of the 1991 Gulf War I, and about the same topic, whose title I forget now but it was supposed to have a front line that moved according to the results of combat. I never figured it out or got it to work.

Oh, goodie, will they take my bills too? And I hear there's included medical! Where do I sign up? :D

Well, I suppose I should apologize for the lack of links but then I was forgetting about the google-impaired among us. Excuse me for that oversight. And apparently there are also a few here who also find the matter of 15 or so innocents being drowned as something to joke about since they are only Macedonian. That's just plain boorish. But anyway, I do appreciate the efforts of some to try and answer the question. As yet there are no more details I could find about the causes. My suspicion is that the boat suffered a catastrophic hull failure but we won't know for sure until it is raised and subjected to analysis. Given that the nation's tourism industry is at stake, I think there's a better than even chance of a serious examination and report coming out of this...I may be wrong of course, but I can hope that Macedonia is not like Russia or Ukraine (which I'm more familiar with) and that corruption and dysfunctional government is not as evident as it is in those more Eastern states. Having spent plenty of time on passenger, ferry and tour boats myself (in fact, I was on a tour boat for 2 hours yesterday with my wife and mother in law enjoying a beautiful day in San Diego's harbor) I could not help but think of what I would do and feel if something like this happened while we were aboard such a boat. So my sympathies go out to the families who lost loved ones. What a terrible waste of life.

I was reading about the tragedy on Macedonia's lake Ohrid, where a tour boat suddenly sank, taking 15 lives. A couple of news articles mentioned that one theory was that a "hawser" used to keep the boat balanced, accidentally broke. It is known that the captain and passengers heard a loud "bang" sound from aft and then the craft sank in just a moment or two, apparently split in two. It was 90 feet long and built in 1924 in Germany. I've never heard of a "hawser" keeping a boat balanced before - anyone here have a clue about what they are referring to? I could see a catastrophic hull failure causing such an accident, but a "hawser?"

I've never been in a war, only read about it...but almost nothing would surprise me as almost anything seems possible in wartime, just from reading about what it can be like. Literally anything can happen because war affects human behavior and perceptions so much. I'm even reluctant to use words like "realistic" or "unrealistic" any more, since both have proven to be wrong so many times. Perhaps it is more useful to ask about what an audience is willing to accept as being within the realm of their imagination...

I've looked into this out of curiosity and the only Ballantyne paper edition of a Sakai book was the 1957 copy of Samurai, so that must have been the one I recall reading after all these years.

I find it more of the same and ultimately not very satisfying. They are in dire need of a new gaming paradigm over there, since they keep trying to fit 20 pounds of mud into a 10 pound sack.

I don't believe so Michael - I read it in paperback when I was in my teens and doubt it was Caidin's, though I've seen the latter "Samurai" work around more recently. It was an interesting read and not a lightweight like much of Caidin's work.

Saburo Sakai's "Zero Pilot" was very interesting.

Stinky cheese cake, anyone?

I "discovered" TED earlier this year and have become hooked. There are some really brainy people and remarkable ideas to enjoy at that site. I wish I could attend in person but having the site is a not-too-shabby alternative.

The products of arrogance and ignorance are seldom pretty and never easy to clean up afterwards.

While the RBU-6000 may have few tubes, it apparently uses an auto loader with several dozen (up to 96) rounds in the ready magazine. That's consistent with an unguided system. By all accounts, it is an effective ASW weapon on paper. How well maintained it is, and how reliably the rounds are made, are two other questions entirely. But it is consistent with Russian naval practice of having a variety of weapons on board to cover all contingencies - and this is a pretty old-fashioned, inexpensive system, appropriate for a low-end coastal patrol craft.

I think this is what happens when your sailors miss one too many paydays...

Here's some interesting photos via the English Russia site of the aftermath of a fire on a Russian patrol craft. I thought the photo of the remains of the on-deck small arms locker was especially interesting. http://englishrussia.com/?p=5095#more-5095

Great photo - shows what a slapped-together kludge a lot of those wartime army workshops conversions were. Still, an efficient use of worthwhile assets.

"And do you..." "Do I ever, Padre, now where's my flippin' rifle?"

"Is that your feet?" "No dear, its the wedding cake."

My suggestion: Get a list of the players - those warlords who count. Make them an offer they can't refuse: so much money every month in a secured, private bank account of their choosing. Conditions: funds can be used personally or to enlarge their fiefdom, but funds can't be transferred to others for use against USA. If this is discovered to be happening, there will be a guaranteed visit from your friendly Predator with Hellfires aboard. Spread a few hundred million around this way and you'll find you have bought some Afghani "allies", eager to ensure they always have Uncle Sam's tit close by. Cheaper than a war and paying for more American widows and VA care. I'm only partly kidding, by the way. I think that's how we have the few allies we have over there anyway. Why waste funds on a corrupt central government that no one there wants? And who the hell knows? - it might even work.

Given that it was the home of Al Queda and the Taliban who hosted them at the time of 9/11, it certainly was a relevant target and probably the only justifiable invasion by the Bush administration. Once we were in the biar patch, however, there has been no elegant way out; there was the whack-a-mole in the mountains game with OBL to carry on, which at gave some justification for continuing in-country for a while but that petered out as it became clear that he'd gone over the border into Pakistan. Mission creep into nation building was the logical next step, but as a nation-building exercise, we could hardly pick a tougher nut to crack than Afghanistan, which is less a nation than a collection of warlord feifdoms. So, yep, it is a tough one to wiggle our way out of now and the issue of opium will give us a temporary excuse to continue the fight for a while, but what happens after that is anyone's guess. Already there are signs that we are becoming deeply resented by the locals for overstaying our welcome, and that just helps out the bad guys we are supposedly there to beat. We need an exit strategy, and fast.

Given that it is an all volunteer force, they already have reasons to fight - their paycheck, their buddies, their patriotism - the real question is, do we have a real reason to put them into harm's way and spend all that money doing it? A reason that will stand the cool eye of history? Having stepped into the cow patty, one needs only make sure of one's footing and then move forward, out of it. Doing a cucaracha dance in the stuff proves nothing, other than you like being in other people's s__t and perhaps inviting them to dump more upon you while you do it. Were I Obama, I'd put together a team of the best minds in foreign affairs, Islamic affairs and history and global economics, and let them come up with a way to disengage us with minimum loss and maximum effect - and then plot a course for us that ensures that those people (mainly Islamic fanatics) don't ever have a way to grab us by the short hair ever again. So, S.O., my answer is, give the troops the best of all possible reasons to serve - the fact that they are part of a logical, clear and well-crafted master plan to ensure their country's ultimate safety. But this time the plan is coolly, calmly and rationally calculated, with an eye down the road to the future and without dogmatic rhetoric and florid political spin and platitudes about bringing freedom to those who want none of our version of it.

One good answer is to be found in this article: http://www.newsweek.com/id/213625?from=rss Basically, people who found themselves at war needed to rationalize a good reason for it, without putting too much considered logic or analysis into it ("thinking hurts my head - I'll let Fox tell me what to think!") So we end up with convoluted perspectives that justify a lot of stupidity. I don't fault the Marine for wanting to serve and fight for his country, only for not putting a bit of thought into what was behind the fight in the first place.

Thanks John, I'll check that out. I'm hoping that this film succeeds because I want sci-fi as a genre to keep evolving and growing in popularity.