The_Capt

Hey Treeburst, Don't let anybody push you around. You are taking time and effort to set this thing up so you make the rules and we'll live by em. Anybody who can't can simply play elsewhere. For instance, I think FT against houses when attacking is kosher, when used as spec fire but if you say no go. The I will live by it. [ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: The_Capt ]

Oh I thought we were the bad ones... I'll try whining louder. I AM OFFENDED BY KIWIJOE'S NAME!!!!

That wouldn't be Andrew Roe of Maple Ridge, would it?

OK just what the hell happened?! We were trucking along and Treeburst pulls the plug on all of them. Without so much as an explaination, c'mon!! If someplayers are pissing you off "throw them out" but don't punish the rest of us. As a min I think the "Wild Bill" Tourney should continue. It eliminates the pre-game haggle and the general gameyness of QBs. It puts the player in a realistic sit with realistic troops. And if anybody doesn't think Wild Bill knows more about this than any three people on this forum combined...well speak up now so we can all bathe in your ignorance. The Wild Bill Tourney had the best potential yet and I think throwing it out "with the bath water", no matter who said what to whom, is just plain wrong. OK so Treeburst has put the ball down. So does that mean no one can pick it up?? Winecape are you still offering the prize?? I think we can get some people together and keep this thing alive. I'll volunteer some of my time to make it happen, anybody else??

Hey Treeburst, Why don't you set a deadline for START of last game. IE All games with all players must be started or finished by 01 Sep. If TCP is the flavour than an agreed "play date" should suffice by 01 Sep. That way if there is a problem than we should know earlier. It is unfair if I only have time for PBEMS to be forced into a TCP (which I may not be able to find 3 hrs to commit to, especially on short notice) game because someone is out of touch or simply taking his time.

Hey Treeburst, Not if a person doesn't finish all their games. They may be able to have a higher average and a lower overall score. But of course you answered my question..thank you much.

Whoa there Juardis!! You might sprain something if you keep going like that. Your first instinct was correct..there is no point ot the thread. That is what makes it fun, awash in this sea of grogism. It is a commentary on the human condition thu the eyes of CM. No point at all.

That is one Dead Pershing. Get some angles on the beast. You can use smoke too. To force him to move, he much less accurate when he does.

I WILL NOT ACCEPT A FALSE THREAD!!! Don't you guys realise that splinter religions and civil wars start this way. We must be united in our Search for the First Thread or we risk throwing humanity into chaos. There must be a link somewhere.. The QUEST continues. SPFT's rally on!!!

Hey Treeburst, Are we judging by average or total accumulated points?

Wow, Thanks Steve. I will apologoze for not searching but have you guys tried that thing lately. Also I did some cool test I wanted to share. I would be very interested in some hard trial results on the new system from some of the Beta Testers. Quick questions though. Has the ability of the MG to fire from enfilade been increased to model something like a beaten zone. This will give the ability to deny and area. Or is this "Arc of fire" going to emulate that effect. And have these effects been estended to armour MGs Again I was mainly aiming at some casualty rates and effects, not so much to re-hash the topic. Everybody thinks MGs in CMBO were off to some extent but I don't think anybody came to a solid conclusion as to "how much". And if you don't know "how much" you may overpower the systems. Anyway good stuff and I look forward to running a comparison with CMBB.

I DON'T BELIEVE IT!! This is not the 1st thread. It aludes to another Board and obviously the poster had experienced the suffrage (his opinion) if the new board for some time. We are close but the Primorald Thread is out there and I will find it...GOD IS ON MY SIDE!! Now a wise out there cautioned us all about the dangers of finding the truth of the First CM Thread. But I will take precautions. I will not touch the keyboard with anything but my nose. I will sacrifice the blood of two Newbies and bathe in it. I will eat a big bag of cornchips without drinking water. I will not sleep for 6 days so that I will be in a proper state to receive the Truth. Now back to the SEARCH FOR THE ONE HOLY THREAD.

DAMN!! :mad: :mad: THE QUEST CONTINUES!!!

Well I came close May 99. You can see it "Welcome to our new home" on the front page. It must the FIRST and I am waiting for connfirmation.

BEHOLD THE FIRST THREAD!!!!!

I THINK I FOUND IT!!! ULTIMATE BUMP!!!

That thread was from Nov 99 but it cannot be the First Thread...it's is not enlightening enough. OK they forced me to do it. I am forming a spin off wacko cult called THE SACRED PILGRIMS OF THE FIRST THREAD or SPFT for short. Our mandate is to search for the Genesis Thread. Thread #1. The begining of the CM Forum universe. When we find it we will bask in it's wisdom and dance naked around our computers and chant in rapture. Memberships available now. Madmatt, give us our past!!!

My Hot Dog has a first name, It's B-E-A-T-E-N Z-O-N-E My Hot Dog has a second name, It's G-R-A-Z-I-N-G F-I-R-E

Ok here we go again, I was surfin the forum the other day and saw some of my old stuff being brought back to life. When I read them, I laughed, then cried and laughed again...I was so innocent back then. Well now I find that being a bit more of a CM Vet, I have moved well into Historian stage of evolution (actually bought and read Achtung-Panzer!, although in my case it should have been title Achtung-Panzer?!)btw, one can reflect on the wisdoms which the game has given me. In exchange for about 1/3 of my waking hours and $83.45 Canadian. Hee-hee with the exchange rate as it stands now I got a hell of a deal. OK, so that got me thinking about toilets. Yup the thrones upon which we lighten the load and touch the face of Creation. Having spent a lot of years in the military, I can tell you I have spent a lot of time in public toilets, some a little too public.. CFB Suffield (imagine the desert but now put rangey grass over the top of it and you have Suffield. We hated it so much we stuck the British with the damn thing...200yrs of Colonial Rule, take that!!) "Gee Sarge I gotta go poo, where is the potty?" "Well sir I think it is 300m that way, or that way, or..well you get the idea. Here take the Troop **** Shovel and go Talk to The Almighty." "Uh Sarge, there is 3 ft of snow and it is -20 C (being May we should have seen that one coming) and all the troops will see me." "Well don't worry about that sir, we'll all promise to look somewhere else and as to the cold and snow...well think of it as a big puffy cloud provided for you to crap on." Or even better..Bosnia '94. Before UNPROFOR was a dirty word and the Yanks had mustered enough balls to get involved. Now one of the tricks to staying alive is to never get off the pavement. We even made up a little ditty.. "If the ground is hard and gray..it's A-OK" "If it is Green and Soft..GET THE F#CK OFF YA MORON!!!" So you can see that natures call was often carried out on roadsides..if you were lucky. As an aside when snipers had a birthday party or things just got downright unfriendly you could experience the joy of the "Ammo Can Latrine" right inside the comfort of your APC. Now I am a shy fella, believe it or not, and if someone speaks or distrupts my concentration in anyway the act of urination is pretty much shot for awhile. So you can imagine my effort whilst trying to pee off a roadside at around 3 a.m. with the sounds of shelling in the distance and troops preparing for rock blasting behind me (A lot like the ambient noise in CM actually, the shelling but a rock blasting mod would be nice). "OK thinking of running water.gentle sun dappled streams..focus..focus..Ahh" "Vroom (jeep zips by) Hey sir you actually f#ck with that thing?! Har Har!!" "Sigh.." Ok rambling into old war storys, back to my point. One thing I have found is that all public toilets have roughly the same graffiti. First there is the standard hand drawn pronographic picture of varying degree of quality. Some people are quite talented actually. Then the usual "For a good time.." "So and So sucks/rulez/does It with all sorts of fauna or flora..." Followed by the "Some organization rocks!!" Then the "rocks" is scratched out and something slightly more negative put in it's place. Lastly the Religious Nut has to try and pass on the word of Christ..in the toilet of course because He is everywhere. "Let no man come to the Father but by me..." followed by "Ya you and your father buddy!! Blah blah blah." So anyway this got me to thinking...What do you suppose you would see on Plato's Outhouse door...kinda cool hey. Well maybe cool is the wrong word but I thought it might make an interesting intro into the real subject of this post. "WHAT I HAVE LEARNED FROM CM" First let me say that these are life lessons and great truths. So if you are desperate for tatical hints go elsewhere..you will learn nothing here. 1. Life is in balance. I know I am a tactical genius in real life and I totally suck at CM. Ahh the cosmic dance! 2. I should never take up casino gambling for a living. If indeed Luck is a force of nature, then based on my CM experience, it is something I should never count on. I played one game where a 81mm round took out my last Puma. If I go to do something the enemy will always attack at that moment. In short I turn into George Castanza(sp?) when I play this game. If it an instinct coming from me..it is wrong. 3. Sock Puppets will not help your game. Well I tried PIPPU (he is still out in the backyard keeping the dogs teeth company btw). Then I tried Fritzy who though very strong wrt doctrine, he simply lacked imagination. (I think the dog is chewing on his pointy little helmet right now.) I have now moved onto a Coporate Trainer called Toni (aren't they all). He has plastic hair, Wayne Newton teeth and spouts off "Unlease your hidden potential!" "Shatter the paradigm!" and "Gleam the Cube"(?!). I think he is going to be enjoying stunning career motivating the BBQ charcoal shortly. 4. Booze and CM don't mix. Just like driving, one tends to say "Ahh what the hell.." way too often. 5. Sex and CM don't mix. There isn't enough nudity in the game to get one interested and just try screaming out "Enemy Armour Ahead" whilst in the throws of passion. Stay safe and yell out your sister in-laws name instead. 6. The forum is essentially a 3rd Grade Playground. Oh ya we have the geeks and jocks. Bullies and bullied. Judging by some grammer and spelling (easy now they took the spell checker away) some foreign students. "I am liking to say this is game for which I find to be very much fun." School yard rules gentlemen...pick on the weak, backstab the strong and always hurl the dog crap at the girl you love. It is no wonder that BTS is cranky, not unlike a never-to-be-married, face like a lemon bottom, dried up 3rd grade school Marm who has to try and keep a couple thousand snotty little brats happy..RIGHT NOW!!! 7. Life is a One Way Trip. Once you hit GO my friend there is no turning back. 8. Patience, for there are Assh#les everywhere. 9. Forgivness. 10. Newbies are the other "white meat" 11. All German tanks are a lot like an angry Italian Grandmother..short, fat, ugly and always ready to smack you upside the head for the littlest thing. 12. The Allied Forces on the Western Front were gamey SOBs!! 13. Life like CM is like running thru a dark forest with a flashlight..backwards. "Ouch!! Oh ya that was a birch tree I hit." 14. The CM Forum Admin staff were long tall, well curved and savage Waffen SS female prisone guards in another life. "Zat is not allowed!! Smack!! Thank you m'am may I have another." 15. Steve and Charles don't actually exist they are a front for a multi-national corporation bent on world domination, which has finally decided to spread into the highly lucrative hardcore wargaming market. I knew it all along. 16. Like CM, life is never fair and often can be downright cruel but it is a hell of a ride!! Well I think that is enough. If anybody has anything else please feel free to sound off. Until next time, remember.. Play CM until you go blind then hire a monkey to play for you.

Madmatt!!! Hear our cries and lamentations. Give us the First Thread so that we may bath in it's glory and wisdom. The one that started it all, the Holy First Thread of the CM Forum. Second Request Bump, Thanking you in advance, All of us.

Maj B, If you would be so kind as to send me your cmb file. I would like to see this in action. I have had a hell of a time seeing any beaten zone or grazing fire in the game. I can say that you are going to get a beaten zone with the M1919 at 500m. In fact troops used to tie weights to the barrel to get a better beaten zone with our new C-6 MMG at 600m. I have seen units hit and effected but only if they are in direct line. Perhaps the problem is with Pillboxes but I tried the test with armour and have posted the result. I pulled back to 600-700m and had even fewer casualties. I think we (or BTS) need to establish a "standardized test" and come to an agreement of acceptable result. If Maj B is getting 100% denial of an area with his MGs than we have a winner. Four may be too many, when two would normally be enough but at least we can see it. I have no doubt that MGs are weak in the game and I think everybody can agree with that, the question is how weak. I think that 2xHMGs firing from enfilade at 300m should be able to stop a coy from getting across open ground, Point A to B of 200ms. They should be able to "Pin" the coy. I think Jason (though wordy and often rambling as usual ) is on to a point. It isn't the casualties which are important, it is the "stopping power" of the MGs on the coy. That stopping power is the psychological shock the entire organization feels when it sees tracers whipping about from both sides. Nobody wants to die so they hit the dirt. In WWI this was trained and forced out of troops who often had no idea what they were getting into. But in WWII the fire and move tactics allowed soldiers to hit the dirt. When under the situation I have stated above the coy is going to go to ground and stay there. I think the problem may not be so much with the MGs but with the morale effect the situation should be having on the coy. Same goes for armour. In one test I did a coy ran between two PzIVs, I would not lead a coy through that and if ambushed would bolt into cover and stop all forward movement. So I am not sure just how much is the weapon and how much is the morale question. In reality seeing casualties outside of your own small organization will cause units to balk. Now maybe this would lead to a much to frustrating game. People think their units don't do what they say now, imagine if whole coys dropped and refused to move. Anyway, I think the question need be re-visites in CM2 and I would be very interested to know how BTS "tests" the effects of the weapons in the game to ensure they demonstrate reality to a degree.

Madmatt!! We want a link to "The First Thread"..I am talking about Thread #1. The Alpha Thread. The Word. The "Let There Be Light". We are but orphans of history on this forum...GIVE US A LINK TO THE PAST!!! Resurrect the GENESIS THREAD!! Let us see, touch and feel the beginning that we may know that we are a link in a chain of addicts. And not lone losers with too much time on our hands. Thanking you in advance All of us.

A drunken fool's definition. http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=017641 "Toot, toot" (sound of my own horn)

try www.tournamenthouse.com it is the best I've found.

Well I just finished another set of tests and I think I can say that the MGs in CM are not modelling reality, in fact they are not pretty far from the mark. Here are some results. 2xPillbox MGs at 600-700ms. A total firepower of 6 MGs at what should be effective range. Versus a infantry coy (vet) the coy had to cross 200m of open ground with the MGs firing in defilade. The coy was exposed to 45-50 secs of fire. I only did samples of 5 here to save time but I think you can get the idea. Over "Open ground" 1. 7 cas 1 NE 2. 5 cas 1 NE 3. 4 cas 1 NE 4. 1 cas 1 NE 5. 8 cas 2 NE Now for defenders of "open ground" here are the results running over pavement, no stumps here. 1. 6 cas 1 NE 2. 4 cas 1 NE 3. 8 cas 1 NE 4. 4 cas 1 NE 5. 5 cas 1 NE Here are six wooden bunkers at the same range 1. 16 cas 2 NE 2. 10 cas 2 NE 3. 8 cas 1 NE 4. 11 cas 1 NE 5. 15 cas 3 NE And for comparison (and the fun of it). Same coy running thru a 2x120mm barrage. 1. 64 cas 11 NE Well, I am done. That is enough for me, if someone wants to keep going, please do, but I am convinced. MGs are very weak and that IMO throws off the tactics of the game. MGs are what should make armour a feared thing on the battle field and should be the anchor points of a defensive position but with these figures the entire equation is changed. I know BTS is aware of the problem and I only hope they have a good idea of how to fix it. I too am interested to hear from a playtester as to the "new MGs" in CMBB.