Mother Theresa

What will be nice is when he is all done and claims his 'crown' and one of us from across the pond, can beat him and claim that country superiority. ------------------ "Out of fuel, become a pillbox. Out of ammo, become a bunker. Out of time, become heros"

I posted this in the tips section, but i think it belongs in this forum more so. I have just started playing with the scenario designer/editor and found a few other things i would like to see added. First, some additions to the unit editor, currently you can add fatigue and status but you can not edit cassualties, i am trying to make a MASH/supply depot overrun scenario and would like to create squads that are already banged up and wounded that would assist in the defense. I would also like to be able to edit the equipment as well, for instance, creating imobile tanks or shocked tanks at the start of a scenario. -Mother Theresa

I have just started playing with the scenario designer/editor and found a few other things i would like to see added. First, some additions to the unit editor, currently you can add fatigue and status but you can not edit cassualties, i am trying to make a MASH/supply depot over run and would like to create squads that are already banged up and wounded that would assist in the defense. I would also like to be able to edit the equipment as well, for instance, creating imobile tanks or shocked tanks at the start of a scenario. -Mother Theresa ------------------ "Out of fuel, become a pillbox. Out of ammo, become a bunker. Out of time, become heros"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stuka: I disagree with everything you say, including the things you disagree about and especially the things you disagree about disagreeing about....... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I agree with the disagreement part, but I disagree with the things you disagree about disagreeing with.

Among the dozens mentioned I have to agree with them all ('The Beast' being a personal favorite) but there are a few other 'War' movies that I feel need to be mentioned. Formost on the list is "Shindler's List", not the action of the others but VERY powerful. Add to that "Life is Beautiful", "Sobibor", "The Great Escape", and of course the soon to be released Pearl Harbor.

I think this thread could turn into a virtual witch hunt if we keep at it. Time to light the torches, I suppose a sherman on a stick will do the trick. -MT

So I was wandering around the forum archives and found this great post. No wonder the TCP/IP patch is not done, all of the people at BIG TIME spending all their time drinking too much beer! By the way, it is fun reading the old posts and watch the answers to questions as the game was developed. If you are waiting for those PBEM turns to come in...give it a try. -Mother Theresa ------------------ "Out of fuel, become a pillbox. Out of ammo, become a bunker. Out of time, become heros"

On thing i like to do (although giving up this info might hurt me in my pbem games) is RUN guys, in half squads, up to forward positions to where I am fairly certain the enemy has spotted me but not identified me., and then I will sneak a retreat and off to reinforce another area, the result is several "last seen" counters of a platoon strength or greater in a area. Causing the other player to hold units and reserves in the area to defend against them. Also, more than once...they have wasted lots of arty shelling a position I am no longer in. When the units are finaly brought in as the reserves, it is in a position they were not, and results in a breach of their lines in an assault of superior number of troops. I also (during setup) look through my platoon leaders to find the leader with the best stealth to pull off this move. The leaders with high combat/Moral I place in my front line fighting force. It helps a lot for pulling off sneaky moves. -MT ------------------ "Out of fuel, become a pillbox. Out of ammo, become a bunker. Out of time, become heros"

Do your own testing, and let me know if ANYONE ever survives being on the top floor, and watch there status at most go to 'cautious'. I think it is very unrealistic for them too take that much dmg from the building collapse, as well as very unrealistic for them to not react to the situation. -MT

Regardeless of what it is named, I am sure I will name it one thing: MY FAVORITE GAME!! -MT ------------------ "Out of fuel, become a pillbox. Out of ammo, become a bunker. Out of time, become heros"

Got some extra money that is burning a hole in your pocket? Check this story out: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20001009/od/tourism_dc_1.html -MT

That is all I was asking for, some reaction from the troops inside to save their own lives. A change of unit status would do it. -MT ------------------ "Out of fuel, become a pillbox. Out of ammo, become a bunker. Out of time, become hero's"

Yes, I understand that they way to fix the problem is not to do it, none the less it is an issue that i think needs to be addressed. Esp. if we are going for more realism (which I prefer, in balance to a fun game as well) And it is unrealistic to lose all the men in a building when it is being hit by HE fire and they know that the building is going to collapse but just sit there and wait to die.

Maybe it would be too narrow, but would be neat to have a medic mod on one of the inf soldiers in a hq unit. -MT

Just wait for the movie, the movie after each of you has ceased fire will end it. -MT

In my original tests, I placed some units at the front of the house so that they would take dmg from the incoming fire, as a result they ususaly broke after the first few rounds hit and ran out of the building to the nearest cover. The took some minor cassualties as they ran from the house but when they made it, they were still enough left to be a fighting force. Eventually they regained their moral and back to the battle. So the AI thought it was a bad situation for the troops to be in and bugged them out. I am glad the AI moved them out, would be upset if it did not. Now the guys in the back of the house know that the HE fire is destroying the building, I think they might notice the large shells playing demolition men, and a few have even changed status to 'cautious' or 'alert' But..they don't see this as a real threat, even when the building is at ** and there is NO chance for survival if the building goes up (still one of my biggest problems with it) and the incoming fire continues. Why can't the inf react to that, and up their status. So thinking in reality, they soldiers should know that that HE fire at the front of the house is a threat to them in a MAJOR TOTAL DEATH(or wounding) way and react occordingly, move out. -MT

I love everyone's solutions to the issue, don't put inf. in buildings that can take direct HE fire. You're right, that suddely answers the issue of units not doing anythng when the building is being attacked. Like answering a bug with a certain tank NEVER firing and answering it with "don't purchase that tank". I don't consider destroying buildings a gamey issue, or whatever. Would just like to see the inf. do something more than sit there and die with no chance of survival. They don't need to model mini fortresses, just make the inf. react to the situation, to give them SOME chance of survival, and make the chance of death in a building collapse not absolute.

I think most of you are TOTALY missing the point of my discussion. Yes buildings will come down under HE fire, granted. But why is the squad that is in the building, taking no casualties and no change of status not concerned with the amount of damage the building is taking? If he was anywhere else in the game he would run like hell after the second or third shot. "This is what you're misinterpreting. As others have said, Combat Mission does not, as yet, simulate progressive building damage. As a building takes fire, it loses integrity, but this is not simulated graphically. In other words, it is NOT "perfectly fine cover" under HE fire – it just LOOKS this way" I don't need it represented graphicly, graphics are not why I like CM. (although they are pretty good beside the fact) If it is not provinding cover from the HE shells, then my units should be taking damage or at least RECOGNIZE that they are underfire and that there is a threat to being where they are. The fact that the unit takes NO damage until he takes it all at once from that last shell to damage the house shows where the dmg is coming from. It just doesn't make sense that in 60 seconds, a unit will be fine in a building, take indirect fire (from any of the sources mentioned, HE, high .cal weapons..whatever) and not do anything until the house collapses and they all die. And the fact that it is a guaranteed death, NO chance of survivial, if anyone has had a unit live from the top story of a collapsing house I would love to see it. "Colonel_D and MT, where is your proof that it was SOP to put troops into intact buildings" Are you seriously asking this question?? Ummm sargent, we can't enter that building, it is against or SOP. Have you watched ANY documentary stuff on world war 2 at all? House strong points were a staple to holding villages and towns and farmhouses. They didn't sit outside in the woods (well they did that too) because when they armor attacks the house will be blow up in less then a minute and everyone inside won't notice it and die.

I understand what is involved in top story of buildings and that damage should accure when the building is gone, my point is being that it is utter and complete. One second all is happy and fine, one more shell and EVERYONE dies. Not a few die as the building falls apart, which would cause them to at least panic and possibly flee the building before it kills them all. I know the code for it is probably a huge blast damage attack against all units when it goes, coudln't it be a smaller blast attack each time the building gains a * so that your inf, could and would react to the building getting ready to explode? "Is well known that in CM if you have troops in the upper floor of a collapsing building, you lost it... Is an intended feature and is very accurate... " Accurate??? Oh, they never used buildings as cover in World War 2? It is not accurate, a large heavy building does not just collapse when that one extra shot hits it but is perfectly fine cover until then.

This has got to be changed and SOON!! I have played a lot of games against the ai and pbem, and sometimes a building with occupied units has been destroyed and caused dammage to the units inside. I have taken some cassualties from it and always accepted the amount there was, usually it was to a squad that was in the heat of battle and had already take a few casualties on the way. Until this last pbem game where I had a 105FO in Top middle and a .50cal on the top right of a light building. They had taken no fire and both were ok in alert status. At the start of my movie a few stugs begin to fire indirect fire to the left corner of the building, over the course of the 60 seconds, my FO status went to Alert but neither unit had taken a hit. Then the building explodes (and yes I know it is just a graphic to represent collapse) and both my FO and .50 cal take 100% losses. I thought this was a bit excessive since the .50 cal was 15 meters from where the shells were destroying the building. So I created a scenario to do some building destruction damage tests. I created a line of buildings, sever tall heavy, several light, and placed squads, hq units, .50 cal, and fo in various places inside. I then had 4 stug IIIGs shoot at them from about 750 meters. Here were the results: 1st Heavy Tall Building: 2 12man squads on top floor rear, 1 .50 cal bottom rear, 105 FO bottom rear. Inderect fire caused 3 casualties to one squad and caused it to go cautious, the other top floor squad alert. No other casualties or change in status till house was destroyed. Building damage. Both top squads eliminated, FO 1 dead (of 2), .50 cal. 5 wounded of 6. 2nd THB: .50 top rear, 1 squad top rear,1 fo top mid, 1 hq top mid, 2 squads bottom rear. ID fire took 1 on HQ, Building explosion killed ALL on top floor and half of each squad on the bottom. 3rd THB: Same as building 1, building caught fire so I could not see building dmg. 4th THB: 2 squads top rear, 1 hq top mid, 1 squad bottom rear. .50 cal bottom rear, FO mottom mid. No ID wounds, building goes..ALL upstairs die. 8 Wounds to bottom squad, 2 wounsd on the 50, FO Elimated. All and all I did this to about 20 Buildings, NEVER...i repeate, NEVER did anyone on the top floor live. And the bottom floor always took at least 40% wounded. I tried the same test with the units just out in the open, and took only 15% of the wounds I did in the building, course it wasn't the guns that hurt me in the buildings either....it was the buildings themselves. Now I am not saying that exploding buildings should not dmg people, I am all for that, just don't think it should kill as many as it does. -MT

I would gladly give it a go, just send it to stevesather@mediaone.net and let's fire that thing up.

I was smoking crack in a back ally, when Jesus appeared to me. We talked about life and the downward spiral mine was going down. As the angels decended to lift him away his parting words were "Visit Combat Missions" and so I did, and it was MUCH better than crack, and just a one time money investment with a monthy internet charge..I was hooked. Of course the more I think about it, he might have said "Visit Convents and Missions" -Mother Theresa

The real question is are they still a 7 man squad at the start of the next movie, or is it now a 5 mand squad again. They casualties might be accounted for, but not displayed when you hit the go button. MT

For the most part, I think meeting engagements are battles where advanced scouts have already know that there are units in the area. The Arty batteries did take a while to set up, but as far as off board arty in the game, it is already setup. It is just a matter of the fo calling in the coordinates to the arty battery. Which is why more experienced fo's do it faster. (quicker at the map readying, better at calling it in etc) And yes, a lot of battles were decided on how and when the arty was dropped. MT

Sorry Jarmo, I won't Bump it again.