Louie the Toad

Regarding the "Advance to the Rear" technique, has anyone tried using a covered arc to the area of expected enemy while 'advancing to the rear' with the same unit? Otherwise as was said, if it is several units you are moving, you do a leapfrog backward as other units cover. LeapToad.......

Thanks, I think I will check the refrigerator right now. May find a juicy morsel. Maybe... those old boxes in the basement? dusty Toad...

Mike T, I think you're snapping the clip on the clipboard. I looked all over the site.. couldn't find it. The Underlined New Mods... wouldnt open. ........... Toad...................... :confused:

"Lost" from my WWII Gaming library. Tank Battles in Miniature - Western Desert Tank Battles in Miniature - Eastern Front I looked under the bed..... Toad

I think another Practice idea would be those who would like to try TCP/IP , Just my TC.. two cents.... Toad

Thin Red: No I was not the author of the maps. But a few months ago, I built a scenario based on some WWII small actions and hypothetical maps. Out of curiosity (research) I looked at the Gettysburg map. Having walked that battlefield I wanted to see how the author constructed it. I was especially interested in the distance relationships between the historic areas. For instance how the distance between the town and Little Round Top 'felt'. Based on that observation I concluded that I wanted to lengthen distances when I constructed my map. That is all...... Toad

"What a godawful painting. It took a lot of men to service one cannon, so how exactly did they operate the one in the middle " Those guys are literally 'out of the picture' Charging the cannons.... Toad

Dear Thin Red Line, I think players like to try their hand at familiar maps/battles, regardless of the age in which they were fought. Even if it means having armor on the Waterloo battlefield. Just an observation....... Toad

Getting back to the theme of the original post, IIRC there was a Waterloo Map made by a modder many moons ago. Maybe it is in the Combat Mission Map Case? I don't recall. (there was a Gettysburg one there too) Nostalgic Toad

"He's too drunk to come to the phone right now.." Exactly why I thought he might know those guys.

Herr Oberst -- Why are you answering for Mouse?

Just a shot in the dark. I know a guy out that way, goes by Jake the Snake, friend of mine for over 50 yrs and member of that club. Nothing more.... Toad

Hey Mouse, Have you heard of a motorcycle club in the Warrenton area called the Partisans? Toad

My last post was written without viewing your last post. Your idea of limiting the view of the field of battle to LOS from units has a great deal of merit. That way, camera levels 3 and 4 which are often necessary to have the type of CC that we want can still be used without providing information that the player actually has. This is part of Fog of War. Games could be set up where one side (defender? most likely) would know, have maps of, the area while the other side would have spotty information at best, until it was viewed by a unit. I am a Big proponent of "What you see, is what you get" ... Toad

As a player, What do we really want? Tell me if you disagree. We want to be involved in the entire battle. We want each unit to make intelligent decisions. We accomplish this by suspending time and space: The player must use unrealistic view levels. The player must use "time out" to direct each unit. What would help? The game AI was smarter at the individual unit level. Is this a possibility? I don't know. Maybe CMx2 will offer a solution. Wouldn't it be great if you could order Lt. Adams to cover the far approaches to the bridge with his ATG battery. Then, depending on his abilities, the guns would unlimber over a certain period of time and the crews would set themselves in more or less concealed positions, with various qualities of lines of fire to the bridge? All dependent upon Lt. Adams' abilities as a commander and the gun crews abilities as well! Then, immediately after you gave Lt. Adams his orders, you gave Lt. Baker orders to prepare his tanks to move across the bridge. You then ordered Lt. Charlie to support Baker's tanks as they advanced. And they all did it. Simultaneously! Then the game system could go to Continuous Time, because the player would not have to take 'time out' to think and act for each unit. This is what I want. I think the solution becomes ways in which we can eradicate the limitations of the game. Wishful Toad

I agree that when there are legitimate play options they should be toggled. What if we could toggle from Battalion HQ play to Platoon level play - Franko's Rules. Battalion HQ play would look something like this: The player can refer only to a map. He doesnt get to see much or any of the battlefield. His units are placed on the map. When the player 'looks around the battlefield' he can only see from his current position. The player gets info (accurate or not) from runners and the radio, which he uses to update the map. Occasionally he will contact a Company commander personally by radio. From his HQ position he can deploy assets under his command and he can ask for support from higher up. If the fighting is close he might be able to see it from the HQ position, but if that happens he would most likely move the HQ. He can also hear the sounds of battle. If he wants to go to see things for himself, then he can go to the front. At that point he looses contact in some manner with some of the Company Commanders. Platoon HQ play would look like this: The player usually does not have a map. He can only know what he can see and what his squads tell him and info from his radio man. He cannot see the overall situation, only the local situation. He pretty much has a single task to do and has to command his units by sight.... well, you know the rest. But we must realize that the way CM is set up, the player fills a hybrid of roles AND ALSO has an eye in the sky. No one (except Rommel in CMAK) can fly around the battlefield at high levels. -- tongue in cheek -- So, what then are the proposed HQ limitations really trying to do? and Why? I would like to refocus on the Why. Please describe your rationale. On the ground -- Toad

Let's say it's a company sized game. The player is the Co commander. He decides that A platoon will take hill 111 and B platoon will take hill 222. C platoon will support B by flanking hill 222. So the order is given, lets say by radio. In CM this means that the player has decided what he wants to do with A, B and C. So, Platoon leaders A B and C have each gotten the order, lets say to launch an attack at 5 AM. All squads have had the order passed down to them as well. The player has not plotted anything at this point, not used the mouse, only decided what he wants each unit and sub unit under his command to do. Now its 5 AM and in Real Life A, B and C would all start out simultaneously toward their objectives. In CM Life, lets say, first A and its squads, then B and its squads then C and its squads would linearly be directed (plotted) to simultaneously take their objectives. When given the GO they would execute simultaneously just as above. In HQ Penalty Life, this would happen: B and C are directed (plotted) to advance on hill 222. So the Player begins the plotting task. But then, Oh Oh, 'plotting time' has run out. Platoon A did not get to be directed by the player. This penalty happened because of the reality of Time and Space which exist outside of the game not because the Co Commander was inept or Platoon leader A was incompetent nor because the radio didn't work. What if the Player had decided to plot A first, then B and then 'time' ran out? Would that mean C suddenly had some kind of problem shifted from A to him? There is game time and real time. Giving orders and Plotting happens in real time. Execution happens in game time. Time to GO.... Toad

I don't think this HQ points idea is a particularly good one for CM. You are confusing orders with actions. In CM, Orders are the plans that occur in your head when you decide what to do. As soon as you grab the mouse, the orders become actions. When you are directing the action of a unit in CM you 'become' that unit. But during the plotting of a turn, real time must be suspended because these directions are occuring nearly simultaneously by units all over the map. In a sense the Order has already been given when you thought about what you want everyone to do. When you use the mouse, you are directing the action of a unit. Then you must go to the next and the next. To do this, real time must be suspended. But actually this makes the game more realistic, since in the GO everything happens simultaneously. The way CM is set up, the player is not just one over all commander giving orders that run down the chain of command. When you click on a unit, you are that unit. If the unit is a bazooka team you react to the situation that is arrayed before you on the battlefield and for those few seconds of plotting you, bazooka man, decide what you are going to try to do. Many incredible dramas can be played out anywhere on the battlefield at the same time. Each has its own 'story'. Each can be savored by the player. This is (for me) part of the utter enjoyment of CM. It would be devastating if this feature of CM were removed or altered. This makes the player a hybrid, playing both the over all commander and the grunt (each grunt). But I wouldn't have it any other way. Maybe a turn timining mechanisim could be put into play vs the AI on a toggle. That could make sense for a game with a few units and one link in the chain of command. It is already there in networked games. But the ideas about HQ points makes no sense, and is a throwback to boardgaming. Now if you want each unit to have its own mind, I think CM keeps moving in that direction. We all know that even though we direct a unit to go one way there are factors which may cause it to do something else. The mechanism we have right now to give orders to groups of units is fairly crude, and results in crude outcomes because the single computerized unit is not as smart as a person would be. It won't utilize cover terrain for example, to get from one place to another. But BB is an improvement over BO in this regard. I expect CMx2 to be a quantum leap forward. Remember that in CM simultaneity requires suspension of time to get things to happen simultaneously (sort of a paradox). Unless we are playing with literally only a handful of units. Time out..... Toad

This sounds nifty. Will it distinguish between a BB and a BO pbem? and place them accordingly? Also, if it automatically eliminates prior turns, can this be shut off. Sometimes if a turn gets lost, it helps to reconstruct. I know, I know, if I have this utility turns won't get lost, but sometimes my apponents loose them. Sounds too good to be true..... Toad

The computer is right by the bed. I can rub her feet with one hand and rub out the enemy with the other. Life is good.... Toad

Thanks, maybe I'll just put my money into tech stocks until then. Bullish Toad

This reminds me of a Laurel and Hardy routine. "Hey, you, where's the basement?" "Downstairs" "Ok, where's the alley" "Out in back" I tip my bowler in your general direction... Toad

Check out the site listed above. The clipboard mod I use for BO really made my order selection more efficient. Interface mods are there too. But apparently NO mod for BB.. Toad

Just after my last posting I realized something in my use of 'Kayoed' for knocked out. Another way to state it would be of course K O . The opposite of knocked out, is okay or O K . Since O K doesn't seem to really make sense as a term or phrase, could O K have derived from Knocked Out ? Does anyone know? Or is this like a duh!? where have you been Toad? Its either !! or ?? ... Toad

In a recent BO game the enemy had an AT gun that was putting the hurt on my guys. I had a Schrek team nearby. It could only see the foxhole the gun was dug in to, but not the gun itself. In an act of desparation I targeted the foxhole with area fire, hoping for the best. I got the best! Well, except that the Schrek used up its ammo even when the gun was Kayoed. Ok with the price tag of Area Fire.... Toad