deanco

Hi Tanaka, I think I already stated 2 times that the smoke was an Area Target command, and thus, there was really no human target. The closest enemy to the Area Target command WAS fully ID'ed as a 1919 MG. However, the Stug had just come over a hill, and I had sent him on a route there where he remained out of sight as much as possible. So I doubt if the Stug had as much info on that MG as the guys who were taking fire from it. Or does he? I doubt it, the tank can't know what the infantry sees, can he? Anyway, he popped over the hill, was going to fire smoke at the area in question, then changed his mind when he saw a big group of enemy infantry to the right. He changed ammo and fired HE at the infantry (red line) twice. One by one the squads ran into a nearby building and out of LOS. When there was no one left to be seen in that area (all in the building) he swiched to smoke and area fire again (white line) and fired 2 smoke shells. One fell between the enemy MG and my forces, 2 squads which were 30m away and throwing grenades at the MG. The other smoke shell was long and didn't screen anything at all. You said, the TacAI works in mysterious ways. Well, I sure as heck would like to clear up this mystery. As a novice player I could learn something about war this way. Believe me, Tanaka, I usually do NOT contradict the AI. I'm sure he knows more about small unit tactics than me at this point. That's why I want to know why he did it. However, next turn I manually targeted the house where everyone was hidden and blew it to hell! I was happy I took over at that point, I can assure you. So now I have 2 questions : can smoke shells hurt infantry in CM (is it modeled, I think we agree that a big exploding thing, no matter what it is, can scare or hurt given the right conditions in real life), and why would the Stug shoot smoke in that situation with no orders to do so? To kill Infantry? Protect his buddies? Protect himself? DeanCo--

I don't anyone in here is going to buy it, but I don't think that this board is a good cross-section of the world at large. DeanCo--

Hi Tanaka, The smoke was an area target command and it appers as though the StuG was trying to put smoke between 2 groups of infantry. That is, just in front of the enemy. This is where he was aiming, OK? The Stug was behind enemy lines so the end of the target line (the aiming point) was not between him and the enemy, nor did the shells fall there. If I were to make a guess as to the reasoning behind the Stug's actions, I would say that he was trying to help his teammates by smokescreening them from the enemy. And the Stug was unbuttoned. Hope that helps. Hi Los, Thanks for making the effort to find out. I'll be checking back from time to time. --------------- Just to be absolutely clear : I do not have a jihad going here, nor am I crying bug. I am trying to learn something about military tactics by understanding the AI's reasoning. Thanks all, DeanCo-- [This message has been edited by deanco (edited 09-16-2000).]

Thanks, folks, for your quick and informative responses. I will say that he immediately picked a point about 340m away that was between what had to be unidentified infantry, and my forces. So I'm not sure who the Stug thought he was smoke-screening himself from from that distance, and the shells did not land between him and the enemy anyway. In between times he DID fire HE at another group of infantry far from the smoke target. Each time he switched his attention to the other area, he fired smoke. Can anyone else set me straight? BTS? (edited after going back to watch the film again) DeanCo-- [This message has been edited by deanco (edited 09-15-2000).]

The reason I ask is that in a recent PBEM, I had a StuG IIIG climb up on top of a hill with good LOS on 2 groups of enemy infantry. I figured I'd let him have his pick of targets. I was surprised when the StuG decided to fire 2 smoke shells with no orders to do so. I watched the targeting thing in the replay and each time it pointed at an enemy unit but at the point of the target line it said, "Area Fire". The StuG was low on HE shells at this time, I think he had about 6 left. Anyway, he did it on his own volition...my question is, why? DeanCo--

...and just to put this puppy completely to rest, if you want a sci-fi version of CM, you'll have to wait for another developer to pick up on the idea. And since BTS is not licensing their game engine, said developer will have to start from scratch. All I know is, if I had a game developer's ear, I sure as heck would try to pitch the idea to him. IMHO it's a million seller, people are bored with RTS and this is just the breath of fresh air the industry needs. Looks like I didn't put it to rest did I?? DeanCo--

"See, look, honey, now this is an M4A3(76)W HVSS Easy Eight Sherman. Now the M4A3(76)W HVSS has..." No, I guess not. "Honey, can't you see I'm busy doing important military research for the U.S. Govt??!!" Nah...not caring enough. She : "Darling, you seem distant, like you're thinking of something else. Perhaps that's the reason why you can't..." Looks like you got a real problem on your hands there, bud. DeanCo--

BTS, thanks a lot for taking the time to expand on your statement about why a big publisher won't be making a CM clone. But you know what, we have been on different wavelengths this whole discussion. Or rather, I have been talking about a different game than the rest of you when I say a CM clone. My idea of a CM clone is a dumbed-down version, of course. It would have to be dumbed-down to appeal to a wider public...I thought that was a given, but apparently not. Anyway, why bother trying to make a realistic wargame as good as you guys have done...it's been done already, for heaven's sake! OTOH, a fictional wargame using a limited number of generic units, reduced calculation for armor, yet keeping the salient aspects such as the wego system, realistic human reactions to battle conditions, fuzzy logic spotting, firing, and a 3D battlefield...that's what I was talking about when I said a CM clone. Since battle calculations are vastly simplified, more CPU cycles are freed up for other tasks, more polygons or bells and whistles maybe? Anyway, that's the idea, at least in theory. Look, wasn't Tactics II a war between 2 fictional countries using generic pieces, yet based on real world facts? Well, a CM clone would be Tactics II brought up to date, let's say. OK, thanks for listening, we now return you to our regularly scheduled thread... "Tracks" DeanCo--

Hi Steve, You said, "Oh... and don't hold your breath for CM like games from other companies. It won't happen. 3D WWII games, perhaps, but I VERY MUCH doubt that any will be even remotely comparable in detail, realism, playability, and fun. Big publishers aren't interested in making anything even remotely similar to CM. We also don't see any of the smaller publishers doing something like CM in the near future either." Now this is very interesting to hear you say this. I am very surprised, to say the least, to hear that, in your informed opinion, other companies will not follow your lead. As far as the "detail, realism, playability, and fun" part is concerned, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Any CM clones would be inevitably compared to the daddy of 'em all. Whether those games would be any good or not is another matter entirely. It just seems to me that a developer could take the salient aspects of CM (wego, topnotch TacAI, 3D topography, fuzzy logic routines for spotting etc.) and stick it in another wrapper and tout it as the answer to RTS. You haven't read all my posts surely but I am a staunch supporter of your game system. Developers are always asking, "what's the next big thing"... it just really surprises the heck out of me that y'all are not considered visionaries due to the success of CM. If you could spare some time to talk a little more about why you think other companies will not follow your lead, I'd be very interested. Thanks. DeanCo-- [This message has been edited by deanco (edited 09-11-2000).]

Hi Runyan99, I must respectfully disagree with some of your points, while at the same time, I can understand, and even share, your concern. In particular, your implied assertion that if a "gamey" trend is started chez BTS, that it is a given that the quality and attention to detail will diminish. Just because this happened at Talonsoft does not necessesarily mean that it will happen at BTS. I got the courage to ask for the "gamey" features just because I am completely convinced of BTS's commitment to realism. I would be the last to ask for something like that if I thought it would affect other aspects of the game. Finally, you said, "Either the focus is on realism...or it is not. Any middle ground is dangerous." I beg to differ. The middle ground is where compromises are hammered out that benefit the greatest number of people. Even BTS states that their wargame is not 100% realistic, because this is an impossible goal. I'm sure BTS visited the middle ground a few times in making CM. So let me make myself perfectly clear. If BTS has to divert precious manpower from historic research, testing, etc. so that I can see that Jonsey has recieved the Purple Heart and is now a Veteran sharpshooter, then I DON'T want that feature. OTOH, if sales have been that good...why not hire some outside help to do it?? My 2cts. DeanCo--

Hi man, I can't help ya, but tell ya what... try posting the same thing in the tech support section. Maybe do a search while you're there to see if anyone else has experienced the same prob. Good luck! DeanCo--

Hi howardb, As an American who has lived in France for a long time now, I feel qualified to answer your question. Kilometers are easy. Although in reality a km equals apx. 0.6 of a mile, in practice (trying to drive somewhere) each km equals about 1.5 miles. So if you wanna go somewhere 400 km away, plan on a trip that feels about 600 miles long. This applies in France no matter what the road, BTW, autoroute, country lane... it just takes longer, don't ask me why. A kilogram is WAAAY more expensive than a pound. Just go to the butcher and ask for a kg of steak. I learned this one way fast. The only one that still seems strange, even after all these years, is celcius. In short, it is impossible to tell how relatively hot or cold it is out from a celcius reading, the numbers are basically undecipherable and mean nothing from any known human standpoint. The only general rule I can give is that below 20° C, everyone wears heavy leather jackets, while above 20° all girls wear sleeveless tops and short skirts. Hope this helps!! DeanCo--

I just want to second the "unrealistic campaign mode" suggestion, where men gain experience, get promotions, and recieve medals for heroism. BTS, you've proved you've got realism down pat. I'm convinced. And I know you care about the fantasy aspect, otherwise CM would have had hexes and counters. Now... "Bending" realism and adding non-essential things such as medals and promotions to add to the gameplay aspect...I know, I know, it's heresey I'm speaking here!... but just think about it, that's all I ask. DeanCo--

Yeah, you're right, Basebal351, there's a "point of no return", isn't there. I think it's after the map is generated, which makes me think it might not be that easy to fix in a patch. But, what do I know. Anyway, there are some good ideas here which could make CM that hundreth of a percentage point better than it is now. DeanCo--

We've been watching the numbers very closely, David, and we think you're ready to go nationwide. I think your image consultant wanted to say a few words...Bates?? DeanCo--

Beat me to it, Elvis. If BTS came to us and said, "Say, folks, we have this little problem with CM2 and we'd like to hear what you think about it, maybe we'll get some fresh input this way", I don't think you'd see too many hamster posts in that thread. DeanCo--

This is by far one of the coolest forums ever. As long as there is animated discussion about CM, war stories, wit, humor, and hamsters, I'll be here. DeanCo--

It's because they're really happy they got the game, and they want to share that. DeanCo--

For me, it was one of my first games, and some of my men were in a building getting shelled by artillery. I locked on them and went to Level 1 view to watch. Every time the building got hit, debris would fall from the ceiling and my men would put their hands over their heads. I said to myself, "Hey...they went to the trouble to put falling debris from the ceiling!" I knew it was supposed to be this super-duper realistic wargame, and I had some preconceptions about those kind of games, but the falling debris showed me that the developers understood the fantasy aspect of games as well as the realistic aspect. With the falling debris and them putting their hands over their heads like that, I started feeling a little sorry for the poor guys. I wondered if I should move them out, or leave them where they were...what was best for them?? That was the beginning.... DeanCo--

You must balance the natural compassion you feel for your men against the necessity of accomplishing the mission objectives. Pretend you are a real commander, and your men are real men. What would you ask them to do for you? If it seems reasonable to you, you're on the road to giving good orders to your men. DeanCo--

Hi Valdor, and welcome to the board! question 1 : no, sorry, you can only assign 1 leg when you bandbox. question 2 : Not per se, there is an "operations" mode where you fight several battles on the same (large) map. Depending on how you do, the front line is pushed back or forward for the next battle. You've discovered a great game! Enjoy! DeanCo--

That's a doggone good idea, Mace. Why didn't I think of that?? DeanCo--

Coffee. Hot coffee, with a tad of milk. Then, cookies. They got good cookies in France, I personally like Pims, Mikados and les Barquettes Fraises. (literally Strawberry Barges) Of course, to complete the picture, a big fat joint would be nice, but there we're getting a little bit off topic... I tell you what, once I have all the elements assembled and a good PBEM opponent to play against, I am perhaps one of the happiest men in the entire world at that moment. DeanCo--

I can't guarantee anything, Slapdragon, but I'll see what I can do for you about the map of the town and the photos. DeanCo--

Can anyone name 5 recent games that use the wego system? I know TacOps was wego, and CM. What others? I was under the impression that the wego thing was more or less a new concept, or rather an obscure concept that CM was trying to bring to popularity. At any rate, it worked. I think the wego thing would have fallen flat on it's face in CM if not for 2 factors : 1) the ability to give detailed, complex orders during the 60 second phase; 2) The great TacAI which tries to take care of your men when they run into trouble. No tiberium trucks here!! DeanCo--