Slappy

Actually, my experience is that you need at least a 2:1 local superiority to dislodge a defender. As I am experiencing in a PBEM of my own, allowing your opponent first grab at the flags is dangerous. There are a few solutions that may work in this case. You can pound said flags with artillery, that seems to help if your opponent is in fact sitting on them. You can flank the flags, making his hold less secure than he thinks. You can hit one wiht everything you have and dislodge his piecemeal defence. In any case, once he is sitting on/near the VL, you'll need far better than 1:1 to get him out. I woulden't be terribly concerned about gamey flanks. That's just a fact of CM life. Given the wideness of CMBO maps, and some CMBB too, there is no way to effectively cover the entire front even without the map edges helping out. [ December 29, 2002, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Slappy ]

Good point. I don't think the problem is as much the armament as the ability to buy these troops as fit veterans. Given their generally light and rear area duty, extra SMGs aren't unrealistic. Try them as conscripts that start the battle exhausted and suppressed and you'll get a more realistic performance.

Grumlin, Any chance of a turn between posts, or is there some chance that I am the one delinquent here? Slappy

It looks like the consensus is wheeled for the allies and wheeled or HT for the axis. Here is my reasoning: As you point out, you can generally get the same guns for a lower price in the non-tracked vehicles. The tracked units tend to have a bit more armor, but not enouth to stand up to a real tank, so the little extra dosen't seem to add much survivability. Especially with the decent road net you mention, there isn't a big mobility loss. Is that what you were looking for?

I agree completely. Greyhound or Daimler for the allies, Puma or the 20mm AC for the Germans. [ December 23, 2002, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: Slappy ]

I believe that my esteemed opponent Grumlin is speaking about adjusting fire from an area within LOS to an area less than 50m away from the original target but out of LOS. This was a very popular CMBO tactic, but probably overused and a bit gamey. You could use the short countdown within LOS and then spend the rest of the game walking that fire all over the map, often far outside of LOS by the time you were done. They went out of their way to cut down on what was considered overly pinpoint and/or gamey use of artillery in CMBB. That said, I believe that Grumlin is correct in that his gunners should be able to make such an adjustment once, but with questionable and variable accuracy. This would represent the FO making the adjustment, but then losing the ability to spot further. Unfortunately, there are very few things in the engine that allow actions to be taken only once, so it's probably not going to happen. [ December 21, 2002, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: Slappy ]

At the risk of returning to the original topic, I tend to use both Sharpshooters and Tank Hunters for scouting. Sharpshooters I put more into the on a hill, hanging out recon category. They do well in fairly exposted areas with wide LOS because they are very difficult to spot. I often use Tank Hunters in place of split squads in CMBB to scout 20-40m in front of the main body of a platoon or company. They are relatively cheap and the SMGs make them more livable in many 'incidental contact' situations. In fact, I have made it a habit to buy a TH unit for every 1-2 platoons of infantry to account for the poor short range firepower and organic AT capability of many CMBB infantry types. I use them as a support unit for frontline platoons for either close support or AT support as necessary in addition to scouting. They also make human spotting more difficult as they can easily throw off opponents force estimates.

Actually, there is no way to give them specific orders to clear a minefield. There is also no way to prevent them from doing so. It's just something that pioneers do when withn 20-30m of a minefield. You usually see them throwing demo charges at the minefield. After 1-3 minutes, it just disappears. You may want to keep them away from any minefields that you don't want them to waste their time on. Also, there is no real FOW on minefields in the mis-ID sense. You either see them or you don't and you always see them as exactly the correct type and location if you do. I have always thought that occasionally mistaking the location of minefields would be a great feature. As it is, you can just tiptoe around the edges of isolate fields without worry.

In most military discussions, it is the first, a tap at various positions. Holding ground is fine, as long as only lightly contested. In CM, it is used to represent any hasty or undersupported attack on a relatively unfortified defender.

I just had to take a moment to congratulate myself. I can't believe that I got a what he said from WWB on a scenario design question. I am truly not worthy. Thanks for the hours/weeks of enjoyment, Slappy

Although exactly true, that assessment misses some real flexability that the designer has. Number and placement of flags, terrain, padlock v. non, hiding v. non etc. can have a real impact on AI behaviour. With some work, you can get surprisingly different results. Placing AI troops, even on the attack can be key to helping the AI make a decent battle of it.

I think that the function is a bit too complicated to be put into straight numbers of battles. Some points: 1. Many conscripts were conscritps were conscripts not because of their desire or lack thereof to be in the battle but because of the level of training that they recieved prior to combat. If desire to be in battle were a factor, nearly everyone would have been a conscript. 2. Quality of NCOs, officers and unit mates is a huge factor in progressing through the levels. It is fairly east to move to the experience level of the top 10% of your formation. You can ask, watch and learn from the grogs around you. If no one in the batallion has ever faced fire before, you're all learning on your own. 3. Time off of the line, training and debriefing are huge factors, particulary at veteran and beyond. Practice and time to go over what went well and poorly can result in learning that real battle stituations can't (although the reverse is also true). Many units started the war fairly experienced on the merits of training alone.

A particularly annonyin subset of Pak's point: A mortar with no ammo cannot hold a flag. A crew that has abandond its mortar can because it is now elibible to use its pistols. I don't think that a vehicle or other unit should ever have less control over a VL than it's dismouted crew would.

Matias, I have for some time thought about the same. I've just sent a training scenario to your e-mail which illustrates a plan I have for a training scenario series. The idea is to practice particular phases of the game, or situations rather than whole scenarios which make it difficult to isolate areas that need work and to repeat the same situation. I would be happy, if you could drum up some othersupport, to be a contriubtior to such a series.

And as the signs say 'Bridge Freezes Before Roadway'.

If you want reaction, you're limited to small calibre radio spotters. Use the big stuff on turn 1, or risk not using it at all in all but the longest battles.

Are you sure about this Sarge? I have seen rubble to building movement many times.

I think this may underestimate the difficulty of pulling off an orderly retreat under fire in good order. This is absolutely one of the toughest things to get a unit to do in all of military maneuvering. I think that the combination of withdraw and advance in the wrong direction are a realistic pair.

Thanks Matt. I will now officially stop ranting about this topic and sit on my hands until 1.02. Nice follow up.

I've seen rounds kill vehicles other than those targeted, and I've read a post in the last two weeks claiming an AFV kill from a ricochet. There are numerous reports of kills through buildings. My guess is that anything is possible, the question is how likely? You may well be able to do this, but that dosen't mean that it is to be done. The chances are pretty small. As others have mentioned, there is no way to make an area fire command fire AP (although it will if you have no HE), so this may well be a waste of ammo and time.

No use sneaking. The defenders can see you the whole time. I would fast move all the way in (or just move). You are actually correct that, all things the same, you are on equal footing with the defender, the problems are these: 1. Defender dosen't have to move (no fatigue) 2. Defender sees you first (easier to see out of a building than in) 3. Defender gets off the first shot (see 2) 4. You are take casualties and / or are suppressed (see 3) 5. Defender gets off the next shot (see 4) Lather, rinse, repeat... The answer is what you have proposed. Suppress, smoke etc. as much as possible. Also, arrive from as short a distance as possible. You are actually more vulnerable in the street than in the building. Whenever possible, arrive with multiple squads. 2-3 on 1 really helps. The defender cannot effectively suppress all of them in CMBO. In CMBB, I'd be happy to get my men in the building, much less stay alive while there. [ October 24, 2002, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: Slappy ]

The same thing happened to me, and I have a rant somewhere in the tips and tricks forum about it. I don't understand how a molotov hit on an open top vehicle can do no damage. The HT didn't even slow down! I suppose the logic will be that the bottle didn't break, but three?

81mm FO with 102 killed and 2 mortars.

I'm not sure it's that gamey. With fallback positions, you have time for your men to do some extra digging. If you want them to dig up the road instead of the woods, that's fine with me. The effect on movement rates for vehicles is pretty small, and you can only cover 10m or so well with a whole platoon worth of foxholes.

I played a QB with 600pts of defending partisans in June '42 (I think). The partisans have points for Infantry, Support, Artillery and Fortifications only. No artillery is available for purchase. Between Infantry and Support, the only 462pts are available, leaving a whopping 138pts that MUST be spent on fortifications. This is the equivalent of 8 AT and 6 AP minefields. Is this reasonable? These guys don't have so much as two potatoes to rub together in the area of vehicles, but they carry 5600 sq meters of mines (7600 sq meters if they're all AP)? That's more than a soccer pitch full of mines. Thoughts?