thewood

Regardless of Adam's partial meltdown, in the case I can think of it was possibly justified, what he said is a pretty accurate assessment for me and my small circle of CM friends. If you go back and complile everything I have tried to say over the last three months, it pretty much matches what Adam has put together. Take a look around the web. Show me one forum that is focused on CM and then show me what positive things are being said about CMSF. You can go on about not getting it all you want, but if most people don't get it, there may well be nothing left to get. As far as BFC being brusque, no doubt. It is generally acceptable if the product is delivered, but being brusque quickly crosses over to being arrogant and prickly when things start heading south. I am hoping that BFC's absence is because of the realization they are slowly alienating a good portion of their core audience with their responses. I hope they are sitting around the campfire with their beta tester firends trying to figure out how to turn it around. I consider BFC an old friend and a little community I can visit and have fun. It is getting less and less fun.

Sounds like M1A1tc got it

I think unfiltered Lucky Strikes are better.

Adam, once again I think you nailed a great point. But that may be what kills CMSF. Something has to fill the vacuum BFC is leaving. Its either complainers or fanbois. Since we know BFC isn't going to come in and answer legit questions, threads immediately start to spiral with guessing and complaining.

It's the smaller scale of the fights. We're still not clearing buildings like you would in the original R6 but the process of moving a platoon or squad from one location to another is more involved now. Furthermore with the elite level FOW you also have to keep your units together if you realistically would like to control them. There is nothing forced about the depth, it is pretty much optional if you can get your imagination into what is going on in the model. You need to be able to visualize what is happening on the screen in your own terms. When that happens, and you can relate the tactical environment to (particularly) real places on earth you can see what is going on more deeply than CMx1. That is the extra depth, that extra modeling of another layer. The fact that the terrain is less abstracted and the squads aren't abstracted at all can be a good thing if the terrain is detailed enough, your orders are detailed enough, and you really get your head around what is happening. There are still lots of cases where the game doesn't react the way it should, mostly due to bugs or buildings being treated as single "tiles". But play something like Ba Bado and you notice the process of attacking a group of buildings is more involved than the CMx1 equivalent, even if more annoying sometimes. </font>

This is kind of using stats to lie. This forum has been up for a few years and used to be very busy. As a matter of interest, I think it was busier before release than after. Now look at posts since release. Every now and then you might get a post count spike of 30 or 40 in a day due to some controversial thread or a patch being released, but I have actually seen 6 or 8 hours go by with nary a post in sight. That is with CMSF coming up on 4 months since release.

I thought the game was about trying to be somewhat realistic, not about balance. Thats why we have different types of objectives, like do not destroy.

No! Did you read the thread! It was a pony. a White with Brown spots pony. Where was I not clear! The level of intelligence and politeness has gone striaght into the toilet. Oh pardon me, my CM1 pony is calling...gotta run.

CM1 had a BJ from a pony. It was MP WEGO edit: Hi, Mom

...from a pony

Maybe BFC would have made more money by having a yearly subscription to CM1.

In the end, I still enjoy a lot of aspects of CMSF. But frankly, I had always hoped that BFC would just continue on with the CM1 experience with minor improvements in each follow-on. Not saying I don't get why they couldn't do it, but still, I am allowed to dream.

Yeah, and I am still somewhat confused about how LOS, LOF, and "the grid" interact. I think my main problem is that there are just anough bugs to make it seem inconsistent.

Just pointing it out. I think thats where my thought about the 8x8 grid cam from.

I know area fire gets snapped to the grid. I think Steve confirmed that somewhere.

But doesn't fire only go to the center of the 8x8 tile?

To me the solution is stop letting squads get strung out. If you are forcing people to play with an 8x8 grid, keep the squads in that grid. Not doing that seems to cause an awful lot of problems.

Just did a quick look at scenarios over at CMMODS: Less than 50 scenarios to date. I am sure there are a few floating around that aren't there. I subtracted multiple versions and the QB maps The QB maps had around 600 downloads Hammertime has 1200 downloads It seems the typical download is around 200 times. What does this point to. I think its the same thing I pointed out in another thread; scenario proliferation, not bugs, may be the killer for CMSF. While compared to some less succesful franchises, 50 scenarios averaging 200 downloads may seem good, compare that to our recollection of CMBO. Add to it a limited QB generator and that really lays out the state of CMSF. I still remember being completely astounded at how quickly scenario designers started pumping out mass quantities. Some not so good, but it kept the community invigorated for years.

I completely agree with you on the scenario tools are much more powerful, but making it more powerful is a double-edged sword. The increased work needed to make a scenario that takes advantage of the new features significantly reduces the pool of people who can or are willing to invest the effort. With QB/random battles still not anywhere near as flexible as CM1, that avenue is also a bumpy road. In the end, all these things, combined with CMSF getting kind of a bad rep around the web, are conspiring to really limit the buzz. I almost think BFC needs to do some kind of re-release with a big patch that adds a lot of features or with the Marine add-on to get the buzz back in the franchise.

My test in 1.04 once again had only the 2nd Stryker in column rotate to face threat, no mater what I did. The other eight just let bullets bounce off them. I tried using a recoilless rifle as the threat and same inactivity. Ran twice and didn't get the Stryker dance.

Looks like there are even any squad members near the icon. WHat I have seen is squads getting spread out and sometimes the icon seems confused about where it should be. This is the first time I have seen the icon no where near at least on squad member.

depth in what way, just curious.

The scenario proliferation concerns me the most. I got spoiled with CM1 with literally dozens of scenarios coming out daily for a period of time. Within the first three months of CMBO's release there were already hundreds of scenarios pumped out. Tournaments were already formed. With CMSF, there are some good quality scenarios, but not a lot compared to CM1. I have seen only one tournamnet attempted at GameSquad and it was aborted before it got started. To me its a combination of bugs, a scenario editor that is more complicated, and lack of interest in the setting.

Is this the same post as in the CMSF forum?

It would seem that poking at the lion has finally elicited a response. Saw Kwazydog walking around with the padlock.