:USERNAME:

Since the game does not give you a shoot n scoot capability, you have to adapt. I keep them either near large buildings, on the edge of woods or with access to pulling back behind a hill. The game does not allow you to give smoke n reverse orders either (the smoke projectors are TACAI realm), you cant count on this. If I feel that a PIV will get overwhelmed, then I will give it a pause/reverse order so that his exposure time is minimized. Hopefully I can reinforce this with a hunt order to another tank/sp from another quarter to cover the area of attack. I believe the turret area may be overmodeled in size. BTS has already admitted tanks are a generic distribution model for placement of hits. The gun shield may have an unmodeled effect similar to the Tiger I front turret (where overlapping of armor and metal was demonstrated to BTS). In CM2 this should be changed or T34 will be getting popped on thier front turrets also by 50mml42 and such. Field expediant armor was so commen with these vehicles that I wonder if they were delivered from the factory that way. I have seen pics of extra armor/tracks added to the ffront turrtes also.

I believe they fired via a magneto so they did not need batteries for electricity. Its similar to the detonator used to fire TNT. The nebel truppen took alot of casualties. Sometimes as much as the infantry. They also were used in street fighting. The range to hit a large building could be very short due to the fact its like shooting at the side of a barn. They basically went from ammo dump to ammo dump firing off the ammo at the site and moving either to the next site (with waiting ammo) or high tailing it to the rear. The telltale smoke from the launch of the rockets was a dead giveaway. Discretion was the better part of valour. The rack weapons were probably left behind to be policed up later. Im sure no infantry unit would want to be stationed in the area when the nebelwerfs came to town. I believe the germans went into this big because the air force dropped out of the ground war support role. Therefore the Nebelwerfers were called Stuka on foot. They had the same effect on the atrget an air strike would have. Complete with whistles.

Thats nothing. I had a priest enter into a circle of german squads. It decides to ignore the rain of hand grenades that are flying through the air. It chases a german platoon HQ in a circle. The platoon HQ left its foxhole and ran in a complete circle till it got back to the foxhole. The priest finally lines up a shot on the foxhole and knocks itself out at point blank range! I watched a couple of times and it was not a hand grenade from the germans but the 105mm HE KO'd the priest! The plat HQ was unharmed. It was too wierd.

This data is certainly interesting in that it invalidates alot of what rambling wrecksford has been putting out as fact. If you go to the websites and study the data closely, the shell that is landing at an angle of 30 degrees (on the right) spreads its effects to the sides predominately. This requires that the range be accurate in distance. The shell on the left (the one landing at a very shallow angle) spreads its effects to both the sides, front and rear. This is certainly more forgiving in range than is thought. Rexford in his "vertical dispersion" pontifications does not seem to take this into account. Lewis PS Imagine a shell that has just kissed the ground at a shallow angle like a tank weapon could achieve and the shell bursts a few feet off the ground after ricocheting. The effects would be very deadly. In effect, the sides of the HE shell are focused towards more target area and less ground and sky.

Try sherman 76mm vs PIV at 1500 meters or so. The germans get creamed.

My name is Username. The name is the game. The user HAS this name. He is the USER. The name is the claim of shame and fame. Nothing to be gained. Burn, nonetheless, with a consistant flame. Always right. Trained. To perfection. I AM THE USERNAME!!!!!!!!!!!! sometimes I amaze myself lewis

This was also an issue with Panzer Elite. Everything was plinking the lower hull of the panther. The germans went from 60mm to 50mm in this area. They must have known that this area was not vulnerable. A descending shell "sees" this downward sloping area as being smaller also. A tall tank like a sherman will actually have to shoot down to hit this area if it is on the same level terrain as the panther. Does the game distribute hits on a percentage basis? example:All vehicles that get hit get 16 percent on the lower hull? (I hope not... lets wait and listen for a BTS response... (sounds of crickets)) Lewis

I think the issue is that there is a LxWxH formula. The formula might not use roof height, etc so that cupolas and MG mounts might skew these numbers for silhoutte.

Charles once addressed this. Depending on the gun/range there could be a degree or two that would be added to this "downward" slope. Also, the fact that gravity is working against the shell and forcing it down might help. Anyway, every degree helps. Ive never seen a holed panther lower hull pic.

I am still finding that the vehicle size silhouttes are not comparable to vehicle sizes. If you take the stug and look at it head on and compare it to a kangaroo (basically a sherman sans turret) you will see what I mean. The roo is 73 and the stug is 82. The two vehicles are almost identically sized when viewed from the front. I know that the Panzer IV was recently downsized awhile ago. Can someone from BTS address how the silhouttes are generated and how they affect hit chances? Lewis

I was once at a bar and made a spider out of a book of matches. It wasnt a great spider but it was my origional work. Someone took it. They used it to entertain some young thing at the bar. I felt like that justified my using deadly force. It took all of two minutes twiddling to make that spider. Dudnt matter. It was my spider. Now, if I had worked on something for two years, and vermin were swarming and and taking that something faster than I could crush the life out of each of them, then torture is just too good for scum like that. What irks me is the attitudes. Its completely thoughtless what most petty thieves do. Not so with these filching online putzes. They have grand justifications and highly touted opinions on why its OK to steal from anyone. Cant you all just be thieving lowlifes and be quiet about it? Thanks Lewis

Its interesting that the report does not mention lower hull (panther) penetrations. It is either a very difficult area to achieve a hit on or gives protection due to its "downward" sloping effect. I would assume that the panther did not have tracks on its turret sides. Can anyone find a picture of a panther with its lowert hull holed? Lewis

It takes me, maybe, a little less than two hours to realize 45 bux cash. It isnt alot of money. And I have no problem forking over them bux if it can get BTS to do the eastern front right. By paying for CMBO, you are buying into CMII. I enjoy the board, the scenario submissions, etc. (except the mod crap..thats wierd stuff man). And its all part of my 45 bux. Its a bargain. I couldn't trot out a dog-faced girl for a simple movie/dinner/shmootch date for that kind of scratch. (Maybe Madmatt could though, but thats cause his sister likes him). But. If some creeps here have to pilfer someones hard work because they feel they have the right to check out software before they buy, well, then fine. But. If they have the balls to hang here and download updated software, then I hope you choke slowly, alone, on some rancid lunchmeat. Real slow too. Hope its boloney loaf with pimentos too. People slave and finesse and put themselves into software. Its like crafting fine furniture. You dont have the right to steal furniture, even if its sitting on the porch and no ones looking. I hope you get a splinter up your tight cheap ass. Cause thats what you are. A tight cheap ass. Shame on you. I hope the pimentos go up your nose before you turn blue and croak. Lewis

Maybe the pamphlet is going to highlight you all's conjecture so we can seperate it from fact. I think in light of your poor showing in the "accuracy" thread recently that everything rambling-rex et al posts/publishes has anything to do with fact. You make very large leaps 'o logic in your proclamations that undermine your intentions. Beware the fact shack attacks... Lewis

Ive read that also Abteilung. They also used current hardening for the armor. A large electrical current is passed through the plate from front to back to harden it.

Yeah take him out to the acc-shack and cane him good. I have already put the word out about reXford and his crew. As usual you are late again simon.

Certain elements can be modeled. Such as: 1. Am I zeroing in on a tank shooting/looking elsewhere? 2. Is the tank swinging its turret my way? And am I an iron nerved veteran or a first time rookie? 3. Did I just miss at someone that is cranking his turret towards me? Point two more than anything will make snap shots happen. Shooting cardboard cutouts is one thing, when they got guns too its a world of difference. I dont know if the game models this but its real. (Point three is a good situation to reverse EVEN IF I have a superior tank). Look at the panther in Jeffs posty-pic. Now imagine a battle going on with dust/smoke/radio crackle confusion. That tank , even at that range, would be hard to see if you werent looking right at it. I can appreciate the game abstracting these misses to mean other things. Like, firing at shadows, pulling the trigger when the driver lurches, pulling the trigger when a HE round impacts nearby, etc. But if the game could up the odds for situations when the defender clearly has the undisturbed advantage (like an ambush) then I say bravo. It might even quell the droning posts of the acc-shack attacks this board has been subjected to. The game uses abstractions. Not every percentile point and freaking millimeter is modeled per se. A good game company knows its limitations imposed by hardware/coding constraints. They work around them. I kind of like the hit chances/game play as is but would like some improvements. I am really bored with "list-posts" where the reXford files surface. I look at range data as only something that can be performed under battlefield conditions by the best of crews. Lewis

Thats the Acc-shack. Stands for accuracy shack. I believe a JagdPanther in a defensive position that is level and has had a chance to guage the surrounding terrain should have a pretty good first round hit against a stationary target. Thats if the JagdPanther isnt being fired on also. Throw in any other parameters and all that goes out the window. Right out the window of the Acc-shack. Lewis

Were churchills used on the eastern front? I believe they were. Dos anyone know if the russians put and mods on them? A 76.2 mm field gun would be nice. Aside from the thrilling posts here, does jeff and rex want the present CMBO churchill changed to reflect this scintillating info? Its hard to tell since BTS isnt part of the discourse.

Why is their Vodka so good? Seen the women?

Its gamey when you drive a DUKW onto a victory location in the last 15 seconds of a game petterZNer.

Id be interested in what the envisioned CM2 typical machine will be. What does BTS think this design parameter will be? What did they design CMBO for? pentium II?

I had a squad behind a small hill with scattered trees. There was sherman in the front of the hill. I split the squad and sent one half squad crawling to the top of the hill and the other to sneak around the right side. The sherman comes around the left side, its buttoned but sees the crawling guys at about ten meters and cranks it turret to shoot at them. They keep crawling, like thats the mission! They get blasted once, keep up the crawling and get blasted again, forget it. They panic and run. I gave the guys targetting to the out of LOS sherman in the beggining of the orders phase but that doesnt matter. The TAC AI should really be able to change the actions of the troops in a situation like that.

Maybe in the game but not in real life. The game does not model angular depression for the tank weapons(LOF). Tanks also have very limited LOS especially at 30 meters or less to the sides. This was well known and exploited by tank killers.

Off Topic? The Topic is: Panzerfaust Unt Again. Unt? Is that german? You want experienced troops to use them? Who has the most experience? The senior NCO's and junior officers.. Excuse the hell out of me for trying to get some feedback into the game. The fact is if the game potrays the PF range from a point to another point, it is unrealistically modeling the range of these weapons. They werent dug in 88s and the infantry could make short bursts or crawl towards the targets. The game should model the range of these weapons a little further then their designation. Now, Thats an abstraction but since this isnt Close Combat and we arent tracking who is carrying the faust then thats a good abstraction. Jeesh...You Unt? [This message has been edited by :USERNAME: (edited 01-29-2001).]