Sublime

Axtually youre right NATO did invade Afghanistan. Though for really good reasons, much better reasons than say Crimea is Russian because we say it should be. Im iffy on Kosovo - that was hardly an invasion and even NATO in 01 was nothing like an invasion compared to say the SU invasion. Id also like to add that at least we ID our soldiers and dont play games with un id.d roops or say miners are ordering t72s on ebay.. but whatever. I can understand with good reasom Russian paranoia about invasion. but thats simply not reality anymore. The gigantic nuclear stockpile assures that as have the repeayed statements that if russia is invaded or allies invaded or it feels its serious enough itll go nuclear. So frankly the idea of NATO aggressively invading Russia is a serious joke. The collective public opinion in yhe west would never support it, itd be an unwinnable war and everyone knows it. Russia has NOTHING Americans want except for them.to maybe Fu*k with other countries more. The idea of Russia invading neighbors is far less far fetched than NATO trying to invade Russia the idea is simply ludicrous. Just as the US public IMO was taken advantage of and plaued afyer 911 into invading Iraq (apparently it was said Afghan wasnt target rich enough) so the govt used this wave of patriotism and outrage to statt a series of forever wars. Breeding fear of terrrorism to keep us in perpetual war. just like i fear your govt keeps the nato bogeyman alive

Actually no I believe you misread my post - I wasnt proposing a false flag operation, plus what government east or west would rationally say "yes we.re practicing false flag attacks to start a war" it kind of destroys the false flag. No me referring to the false flag isea was statement of fact about how Germany initiated its invasion of Poland in 1939 ( I will swipe at Russian revisionism these days that exculpates the SU from responsibility for costarting WW2 with the Nazis and helpiny invade Poland) My statement about defensive beginnings to operations east AND WEST (again in the cold war even when doctrine changed in the 80s to almost immediate counterattacks it always presupposed War Pac invasion, I believe this is on both sides to make these war games palatable PR wise) Also on the maps ubfortunately I dont read cyrillic. I do disagree with the threat the Baltics/ Europe faces vs what really is Russian paranoia over NATO. Every country thats joined has done so willingly - no nations ever had an armed incursion to keep it in like several Warpac countries. Russia also invaded Crimea in the last 5 years, NATO hasnt invaded anywhere.

Yes along with the infamous radio station attack that was staged complete with murdered KZ inmates dressed in Polish Army uniforms. I do remember in the 2017 exercises reading that the script of the game had a 'western/nato invasion' which then was beat back amd the Baltics and Kaliningrad swiftly reunited with Russia..

to be fair it seems every nations large exercises seem to have an initial defensive stage (maybe for PR?) before its assumed the enemy attack is parried and counterattack is begun. That was the Vostok 17 script and the script in countless Cold War NATO wargames..

you said it not me

Well first off you definitely know a lot more than me about all this but wouldnt it make more sense to have the BluFor bombers try to hit something somewhere in Siberia -( hell its so big you could make a fictitious country for the wargame and you could make it one of the top 5 countries size wise) - so said bombers could perhaps be intercepted tracked practice gained al around? After all I highly doubt the USAF is going to allow those F22 pilots to fly to Russia to debrief on the Tu95 performance during the exercise. (Then again as long as Trump stays out of it otherwise I fear we may GIVE Russia our 'literally invisible, you cant see them at all' stealth aircraft fleet away for being such great guys P.S. It may seem we.re speaking about different events. How would Tu95MS flying towards Alaska be any use in repelling a cruise missile attack? That seems more like them DOING the attack? Interesting you noted who usually plays Blue - why those units? Why not rotate who plays Blue are those units somehow more Western or foreign than other Russian units? How did that 'tradition' start?

awesome thanks

didnt read any posts - Id love CM Nam but I dont think graphics are there yet where we could do jungle combat that didnt look off graphically. No, I just posted because I remembered when I played CMSF alot back in the day I liked the Canucks best if I wanted to get thw most Americans in Vietnam feeling equipment wise. Mostly based off their m16 lookalikes and the squad lmgs and compositions.

RIP to a true man of honor even if that meant not toeing the party line - never afraid to correct outright lies falsehoods and smears even against his opponents. Respected even by his N Vietnamese captors to this day, and as was noted as the son of a Rear Admiral he could have secured release after a year. Ibstead he wouldnt leave his comrades behind and stayed another 5 years in hell for it. It boils my blood that a man who said STDS during the era of free love was "his Vietnam" had the nerve to insult McCains service and courage. I truly feel for his family and Im truly saddened that our country has become so damned divided that his death wasnt even enough to get certain people to show some respect.

I disagree about the bombers playing a BluFor role... There.d be no way to evaluate RedFor intercepting the target or anything and the geography is going the wrong way. Much more sense to have the bombers flying FROM the West and see if they can be intercepted or whatever. Theres also a good chance the Tu95MS flight maybe had nothing to do with the exercise at all. Of course the rest I agree - Russia being RedFor, US use of cruise missiles ( and from the US perspective why not? No downed pilots on TV, etc etc)

Id agree except for reading the other say Tu95 MS.S were intercepted (by F22s) near the Aleutian Islands participating in the exercises presumably pretending to fire cruise missiles at US missile defenses/radar sites.

Most definitely not surprising. According to Wiki ( yes I know..) to this day theres almost monthly firefights and raids. The nuclear factor definitely would be scary and very interesting - think of it as a gigantic test for mankinds survival - can 2 nuke powers fight a war without it sucking in the whole world? If said powers use nuke will they be able to contain them to battlefield use only? ( Given the Pakistani's experience with terrorist groups and stuff I fear a 'terrorist' would detonate a nuke in say Delhi and Pakistan would deny responsibility. Still wouldnt stop Karachi being blown away. Anyways - yeah if both powers cannot refrain from nuclear armageddon if a war breaks out then humanity is more definitely doomed than ever as that bodes incredibly badly for any future conflicts with nuke armed states. Lastly sorry to go OT but I think most of us ineviteably will see a nuclear exchange, 50/50 on a end of the world type, in our lives. Why? N Korea. Theyve released endless propaganda showing DC NYC getting nuked, endless nuclear threats.... Wait did I say threats? I dont see them as threats I see it more like theyve explicitly told us what theyre doinh to destroy the US every step of the way and are following through on it. Just you watch when they have ICBMs they reliably sure they can shower on America, methinks they wont be so hermit-like and become verrry aggressive. Anyways Vostok 18 is very interesting as its a pretend peer on peer war. Fair nuff. Chinas in though... that leaves the US as near peer. Not as scary as the news makes it out though, we did 40 years of drills against VERY thinly veiled Russian (redland or whatever) faux nations and for example when my father did USAF SERE training in the late 70s the fake guards pretended tp be East German ( i wondered about this then realized we probably had a lot more military German speakers in that time than Russian) with faux KGB interrogators coming in. Apparently very very rough. they could break a couple bones and cauae none permanent injury. According to my father he was one of the last guys runming around uncaptured in phase I and the guards played a dirty trick and using loudspeakers told him the ecervise was over and to come out. When he did he got his @ss kicked. "NEVER BELIEVE COMMIE PROPAGANDA!" lol

i think an Indo Pakistani war would be MUCH more exciting though I wouldnt want to see it

im an 80s baby whether or not it deserves it the t80 will always be the soviet tank that gives me wood

Still...In sure the Hells Angels or Bandidos or somesuch over here would cream their jeans over a T54/55 Interestingly a documentary I watched on Putin roughly a decade ago had a lot of footage of him palling around with the leader and members of the N Wolves.. Anyone wonder if Putin has Wagner Group members fight N Wolves with bare hand to the death for his amusement?

however true its still a whataboutism. And Id GLADLY trade the Oplots. ( in whose AI is somewhat broken vs T90AMS/A ) for T80Bs or 80Us

lmao..... I used to start singing " Alllll by myy seee--eeellfff" when Id hear someone start whining

Thanks for your reply. Very well thoufht out and you.re right theres definitely a cultural attachment to tanks. This is something that is surprisingly not remarked on much. Yes I saw the pics of purported Su57s on the flight line. Of course like the nuclear torpedo 'accident' I believe everything we see, especially as members of the general public, is VERY MUCH only what the Kremlin wants us to see. edit: I very much want to establish I draw a line between Russian fanboi wet dreams like the T95 became, and very efficient proven equipment that is definitely out there and able to influence a conflict - for example 1 or 200 Mi28s, versus the idea of vaporware weapons where theres say a platoon for the Russian nation and none more are going to be bought

Given recent news articles I read where the Russians have said they wont be buying Armatas in any large numbers any time soon make me think itll go the way the of the PAK FA. Which also gives me some serious LoLz at the various Russia Stronk! Armata and Pak FA comments Ive read over the years, and demands a couple years ago for Armatas in BS because of course by 2017/2018 the Russians will have hundreds IF NOT THOUSANDS!!! ahh.. schadenfreude edit to add : The Russians will be rolling around in T72s probably for 30 more years. I mean they had IS2s in active service with reserve units in the early 80s! Plus if you take the US as an example - we spend more on military by several ordera of magnitude more than any other nation let alone Russia and we openly state we.ll be using B52s until the 2050s, it looks like F15s will be in service at least another 20 years, we.ve been using M1 variants almost 40 years now - Ive always wondered why Russia fanboys had to latch onto the idea of the Russian military getting all totally new equipment and f#&!_$_! you if you think anythibg different. Always seemed odd to me because the Russian equipment in use isnt really that terrible and has its definite pluses and unique traits anyways. Its definitely not like a Wehrmacht equipment vs Italian Axis equipment type situation where its just ridiculous how lame the Russ kit is in comparison IMO.

Apparently the alt right is correct and liberals are turning America gay!! https://www.businessinsider.com/arizona-sheriff-told-sacha-baron-cohen-he-would-accept-blow-job-from-donald-trump-2018-8?utm_source=hearst&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=allverticals OH MY GEEERRRDDD

better posted in seen it all thread

speaking of its interesting North Koreas foreign minister is starting to criticize the current US administration once people started lointing out Russias basically helping then sidestep sanctions, along with China and several other nations. Makes you wonder how far making nice nice got everyone. Seems it doesnt work much - unless youre willing to just give them carte blanche in return for a smile in the face. Theoretical question: If war was imminent and you were in command of US forces would you guys favor a strict defense with local counterattacks or go with what is accepted as US plans now - complete counteroffensive almost immediately? Who would you appoint to command the US forces?

.This is extremely relevant to me and most people my age I know who have similar views to mine politically' i.e. the Democrats are usually way better than the majority of crazy conspiracy theorist nuts the GOP trots out these days; that said no one in government is really on my 'side' I feel and this gets to the heart of the problem, just the Democrats wouldnt want to erase public assistance, keep minimum wages really low, and the Democrats are NOT continually trying to trick workers into thinking unions are some major scam. (Im sure you can guess which parties candidates are heavy on the anti union stance) In the end though, and I want to clarify this because I hear a lot of people who arent in a similar situation accusing people of being socialists because they dont define themselves in a politically binary fashion - if you cannot afford to even live and feed yourself alone busting your hump in a legal 40 to 50 hour a week THE SYSTEMS BROKEN! You shouldnt HAVE to have a college degree and massive debt, you shouldnt HAVE to have several roommates. And frankly I think a lot of people are starting to feel as I do that really neither side is MY side. I do admit with me though this translates into political apathy most of the time. Where many others support Sanders etc. I like a lot of his ideas, I just cant picture anyone ever electing an independent. The system isnt made that way. Anyways Im done commenting on the topic unless directly adressed

as long as we understand we.re completely at odds on politics. And youre kidding about confronting China right? What because of the tariffs? 1st - helping the deplorables. LOL look at the last tax cut and the new one he.s talking about. ESPECIALLY the new one. Hes on tape bragging to his buddies at Mar A Lago 'I made you guys a lot richer'. 2nd - Trump isnt confronting anyone let alone China. Nice how you didnt adress any specific points I made. What I have heard Trump talk about was how clever Xi Jingping was to make himself leader for life and of course his infamous statement on tape that ' we ought to try that here sometime'. Honestly I was gonna write a big thing. But this gets tiresome. At this point I really feel like we.re at the point where if anyone still thinks anything Trump says is credible (not because he never says anything true, but because he.s literally up to telling 16 on air public lies a day in June, and his whole presidency has averaged 8-12 a day) or that he.s out for anyone but his own family and the elite is frankly naive and/or living in a universe so far removed from mine thst I see no point in discussing this topic at all, and question if there.s really anything to discuss at all anyways with such willfully blind people.. Honestly the entire situation makes me sick, especiwlly the venom and vitriol thats gotten to the point where its not just politics anymore it becomes personal and theres a lot of it on both sides. Im not innocent, I find myself disgusted utterly with Trumpists. I wish I could suddenly not care about the news or world events and stick my head in the sand, but I consider it very irresponsible to be so ill informed by choice.

Whoa erwin you completely misinterpreted what I was saying. I didnt want to directly go there but for the record I think Trump is a narcissistic clown who is openly being duped in the least sophisticated, moronic and embarassing fashion by every strongman in the world that deigns to treat the POTUS as at least a mere equal - especially fat Kim and Putin, and frankly he makes me embarrassed to be an American often and Im utterly disgusted with him and his whole tribe of followers. I have zero doubts whatsoever that in another country Trump absolutely would install himself as a dictator and its a wet dream of his; his actions to me speak volumes about an elitist rich person - might makes right and he.s rich because he.s better and about 98% of the country arent even people and are just to be used and played. I think also it seems he gets off on living vicariously with these same dictators with these summits and doing unprecedented stuff like meeting alone with them. I truly believe every admin has been played but he isnt doing anything special pressuring anyone on N Korea - he went to Singapore and GAVE away one of the biggest things the Norks have bitched about for some unverified sets of bones? And in the process gets played for an absolute fool by the volumes of evidence emerging the US is getting duped and acting as if everythings fine. And before its said "well he didnt know they wouldnt honor any agreements.." Yeah, if you discard ALL previous experience you could be optimistic. He also didnt need to declare the nuclear threat over and basically fellate himself in front of the world the moment he got off the plane so...