Zamo

Your right, I WAS basing my assesement on the Eastern front, not on history as much as on previous games, my fault. For what it's worth I do actually know somewhat about combat in the east, and was basing my response on a mixture of disappointment that my dream of a PTO CM will not happen and the afore mentioned poor Eastern front gaming blight. I appologize if I was (again) out of line. I recently read "Fighting in Hell: The German generals speak" or some title like that and highly recommend it to anyone interested in combat on the Eastern front, as well as "Front Soldaten" which is also good. These both describe life and death in the east very clearly. It is simply a personal desire to see more PTO games which got me worked up, I am a former Marine, with a BA in History as well as an avid wargamer. Combine those three and that should explain my tirade sufficiantly.

I am really disapointed in BTS decisions on this. I am firmly of the oppinion that a properly done PTO game would be far better than anything European. At least as much as squad level combat goes, and I had always thought of CM as being more or less a squad level game. I won't reiterate Los's post, but I think anyone who would call the PTO "boring" really doesn't know jack about it. In that regard, it is best that BTS leave it alone and stick with what they know best. Somebody will make it, especially after everyone sees how far the bar has been reached with CM. There are going to be spin-off clones coming out of the woodwork for a few years as everybody trys for a slice of the pie. Big dollar companies will move back into the genre and drive the little guys right out of business. I wonder if there will be time for BTS to make a CM3 or CM4? It won't take long for somebody to realize the Pacific is being neglected (again...) and then I'll simply spend my money somewhere where it is wanted. I have no desire to spend money on a North African/Italian campaign nor another East Front game. Wanna talk about boring? If you play the AXIS your just BEAT...Period. I've played games against waves of T-34's and KV-1's before and they just aren't fun. Same with the Desert. Desert warfare in the Steel Panthers series was tedious at best. I'm eager for a wargame that HASN'T been done before, hence my optimism for CM. It is unlike anything done before. Now take that and put it in a theater of operations which hasn't been well modeled and you can clearly see the potential. I'm not intending to bash BTS or those of you that are looking forward to CM2 through whatever, just stating my honest oppinion and disappointment. Zamo

Most of the skirted vehicles I have seen were mid to late war vehicles and many of these lost the skirts rapidly once they went into action. Alot of photos will show a tank with some of the skirts missing or bent. Take a look at any tank even today and most have bent fenders. I hope (but doubt) CM will model this "missing" skirt detail. It'd be neat if they had a pool of art for certain vehicles and a randomizor to randomly say tank "X" is missing some skirts and then load the appropriat art for that tank. Same thing with kill rings and vehicle numbers. I suppose they have considered this and either implemented it or discarded it. We shall have to wait and see... Zamo

I am still haunted by the music score they used in this series. They always ended with a freeze frame of some tragedy and rolled the score...Man...very powerful stuff. Buy it. Zamo

Heavy Bomber, I am one of the few who haven't tried PBEM. I have never played a PBEM game ever, any game. I have played numerous LAN games, and Hotseat games, so I understand how much better playing against humans are, but, honestly, I am very apprehensive of trying to do battle with all you grognards around here. The AI still gives me enough of a challenge. I usually win, with heavy casualties frequently, even though I know where he is and when his reinforcements show up, etc. So I can't imagine playing against folks who routinely trounce the AI. I actually have tried to limit how often I play the demo, to keep it fresh. Plus, I don't know if I would enjoy the patience required via a PBEM game. I better go play it again now... Zamo out...

I..Ummm, just thought I'd better get in on this wonderfully diverse and amusing thread while the goings good. I have nothing to say about anything. Just wanted to add my idle banter to this never ending thread while I can. Zamo

Check out this website: http://www.adpc.purdue.edu/SS/ArmyROTC/branches/armor.htm Zamo

Remembered by whom? Patton organized the first American tank units during WWI under Pershing while Chaffee was still in infantry. He also drafted education and training procedures for a tank corps long before Chaffee got into it. Not to belittle Gen. Chaffee's contribution, but he wasn't first, and shouldn't be credited as the "Father of the Armored branch", at least historically speaking. I suppose it has to due with the fact that the Armored corps was disbanded after the First World War, and then re-created during the later part of the 1920's. Zamo

I've read alot of books on the guy and I think you're right, he must have actually fallen in the middle. He was certainly an incredible leader and a very interesting man, but was he as great as the legends portend? No. Was he the greatest tank leader the US has yet produced? Defiantly. He pretty much created the US tank corps single handedly. I still think he was our nations most spirited commander of the war, and must disagree whole-heartedly with our esteemed colleagues here who think Marshall, Eisenhower or Bradley, or heaven forbid, MacArthur, should hold the title. Granted, I will concede that Patton would possibly have floundered in any of the posts those gentlemen had. However I think the obverse is also true. Patton's genius was for combat in the attack. Which is exactly where he performed best and where he stayed. Perhaps a perfect example of the "Peter principle" at work. I see there is a new book out now that applies his lessons and maxims towards success in the business world. Neat idea. I think "Patton: A Genius for War" may be your best bet. It is critical of the man where warrented and praises him where he shown. Great guy to study. How complex the man? How resolute the legend? Zamo Really hoping this doesn't turn into another "greatest general thread"...

I don't know how BTS does it, but most of the software companys I've delt with professionally utilize "Fulfillment" companies who actually do the nasty business of filling orders and shipping inventory. I doubt Steve and Charles et al, will be anywhere near the completed product once production commences. It would still be cool. Hell, I wouldn't mind a copy signed by Manieri! Zamo

I visited the tank museums at Munster, Sinsheim and Koblenz when I visited germany a couple years ago. I'm dying to visit Bovington and Saumer sometime and perhaps the big one in Russia someday (Kablinka?) Munster and Kolenz where fantastic, depite no "running" demos. Sinsheim had alot of stuff, but it seemed kind of trashy to me. Less a museum and more a fun-plex with tanks (and a killer classic car collection), but alot of great stuff regardless. I was really impressed by the Sturmtiger. I didn't know any were left... I still have to visit Aberdeen too. Might as well stop by Ft. Knox while I'm at it..Sheesh. I need a real life... Zamo

BOC here in Tacoma on the 19th...Yeah, I already got my tickets! They still put on one of the greatest shows around. I always enjoy taking younger friends and folks who aren't cult-o-philes and watching them get blown away by these old farts...

When I was sixteen...man...just remembering how simple and uncomplicated things where. Room and board were free. All my closest friends were "right there" (not off doing there own family thing half-way across the country). Gas was cheap (er). Blue Oyster Cult were gods. My small town high-schools biggest worry was whether the freshmen were going to be thrown in the pond (not machine-gunned). Tax was what you had to pay on burgers. My dog was still alive... and girls were a complete and utter mystery (somethings never change...) Life is a pretty crazy set of circumstances isn't it? I still feel like that same guy, it must be the rest of reality that warped around me. Too deep for this board... Enjoy youth while you have it Manieri, don't grow up at all if you can help it. Same for the rest of you young bucks... (though I do gotta admit the "life begins at thirty" mantra does hold some truth as well) Sgt. (once upon a time) Sehmel, C.H. USMC "Zamo"

Of course "Soon" is a relative concept...Especially from a geological viewpoint. To the rest of you crazy guys, please don't flame me, I already know I tread delicate ground... I am simply seeking reafirmation of my faith. Is this not exceptible to ones deity? Zamo

Gentlemen, esp. Steve, This thread has filled me with a born-again sense of excitement regarding CM. The last week or so I have been more or less "coasting" in my anticipation. To hear that the AI is going to make it's decisions like this has got me all a-giggle again... Will this blasted game NEVER reach my sweaty little paws??? Zamo

This is a test. This is only a test. Had this been an actual post you would have been instructed to read about high velocity 76mm rounds or some other pice of military crap. As this is only a test, please leave your computer, drink a beer and seduce your soft, smooth seduction target. Zamo Out... I didn't have to re-register... Registering is something you do with artillery...

I have always been a warrior, and have always been facinated by the subject. Since I was a young child. Whether we were assaulting the neighbors treehouse with our Mattel Marauder M-16's and tommyguns, (or the cool M-1's with the cap that actually fired a plastic cartridge) or creating intricate defensive systems in the sandbox only to be shelled by 155mm rocks and firecrackers, I have always played war. War movies and books have always been a staple all my life. Eventually, despite my best efforts, I grew up, and then joined the Marines, where I rose to Sgt./Tank Commander quickly. I had attained Nirvanna. All was good. Then I got stricken by bone cancer and was forced back into the humdrum life of a civilian. I did, however, survive (both cancer and the conversion to civilian...) Wargames for me are as important as bread and butter. I also collect Military style semi-automatic rifles (the evil ones) and build all sorts of tank models. It is who and what I am. Ingrained. I have to agree with Bullethead, I think it is a biological element of what kind of animal we are, a preditor. We may be striving towards true intelligence, but we are only a step away from tooth and nail animal savagry. We can not ignore that, though we may try to improve on it. Perhaps one day the only wars mankind will fight will be for recreation on a computer screen. Perhaps this medium will satiate the need some of us, especially those generals and politicians who lead us into the real thing, to wage aggressive conflict against others. I doubt it, but it would be nice. I prattle on to much.... Zamo

You da MAN, Baby! Word... Z

I think it will officially be released April 20th to coincide with the birthday of certain famous people. Not to insinuate that the guys at BTS are fans of his. I am. I love the guy. With all my heart. Come on now, who's birthday could I be talking about? April 20th? That's right! You guessed it: Tito Puente ! Also George Takei and Clint Howard... How could anybody not be fans of these guys? And therefor it would be the perfect day for those nutty guys at BTS to release it. I can only think of one birthday on that day which would be inappropriate...Hmmm, no matter. No one of any historical importance. Zamo, tongue firmly in cheek PS and no, this should NOT be interpreted to mean I am a fan of the unmentioned one)

I hate to say it guys, but I honestly wouldn't expect to see CM until at least May. From comments made here it seems they still have an awful lot of work to do and work takes time. I think anything earlier than that would be wishful thinking on both their and our part. I think May at the earliest...Late May. "They're Ok, the last days of May..." Zamo Going to put on a certain album by a certain band few of you children probably have ever heard of...

Indeed Fionn, that was a dark and sinister activity to say the least. Especially of the SS prisoners. Not that some of them may have deserved it, but then, this was "after" the war and done by the suposedly "Good" allied forces. I cannot remember right now where I read about the willful starvation of post-war German POW's, but it was incredibly damning and just as disturbing to me as Dachau or Bergen-Belsin or any of the Axis death camps. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me I remember reading that the British camps were amoung the worst. I would expect such things in Stalinist Soviet Union, but we have all been "educated" that English and American troops would never behave so. Do you have any stats or source info? I think this erradication really needs to be made more public. Same with Allied refusal to pick up floating German Naval Survivors, some ghastly stories there as well. As is all too common in war it's as though we had become that which we fought against. Zamo

First off, I am not advocating stealing anything, though I am sorry if some of you took it that way. If you re-read my posts, they are quiteclearly hypothetical, albeit perhaps a bit too vindictive. I said "IF" you found a link, not "HERE'S" a link. I run a small networking company and all of my software IS payed for, by necessity. It never-the-less never surprises me when I go out to a customer site and find all sorts of bootleg crap. Perhaps I have been doing this so long that I have become too jaded and cynical. I have not nor do I intend to steal any games. I do agree that possession of any...ANY bootleg software is theft and my comments about hypocracy relate only to those people who think stealing from a little company is bad and stealing from a big company is ok. There is NO difference. As several of you pointed out, theft IS theft. I am not even going to bother downloading the gold demo, as I am going to buy CM regardless. Right now. I generally disdain pre-ordering software for several reasons, but in light of the situation and the poor position I have put myself in on this board, I will put my money where my mouth (er, fingers) is and do so. I think Kraut probably said it best, how I was originally feeling. And I must reasses my comments in the absolute and say "some" not "all". I apologize to any and all who may have been upset by my posts. Especially BTS. Zamo

OK. So I'll stand in this hornets nest and take my stings. I also spend hundreds on games each year. I do not make a habit of stealing anything. The person who "stole" the product is the person who broke a legally binding contract and posted the beta. I'd also like to see him skinned. I'm only saying I'd like a sneak peek and would sell my own mother to do it. Temptation is a terrible thing. I am not going to proactivly search for this software as I have better things to do and I actually doubt it really exists...I'm glad you are all so high and mighty and morally my superiors. I'm sure you are all running legal copies of Win9x or NT, and I'm sure you have all paid Netscape for the browser you're using here. I do apologize for suggesting any of you would stoop to my level and be human. Have fun in church... Zamo Who still thinks most of you are even more hypocritical than ever...

That looks pretty neat. It looks like a lot more fun than Asheron's Call...Hope they deliver on the promise. Zamo

Mike, I've always wanted to play a good simulation with a platoon of modern pigs, be they M60's or M1's, against numerically superior WWII forces. Of course, then you start thinking about going back and refighting Little Big Horn and then it's back to the Battle of Hastings and pretty soon, your M60 is fighting a T-Rex...Now that would be fun...even without any ammo... Zamo