aka_tom_w

Those are good questions. I particuallarily like these two lines: i) Does CMBB have $45 worth of upgrades over CMBO.? ii) I personally found it now seems to leave me feeling frustrated. It's not unlike hand-to-hand combat underwater. I'm left feeling I have to fight my own forces and envirorment, as much or more as I do my enemy. Interesting comments I appreciate your honesty and candor. I would guess if money is an issue you might not really enjoy CMBB and likely would not get your money's worth out of CMBB. But the real question is: "Did you get your money's worth out of CMBO?" -tom w

Thanks for all the posts lately Steve (BFC-Steve) This must bode well for the release of CMBB as by now things at your end may have slowed down now so you have a chance to do things like fix the front door and get around to doing chores and laundry (I'm just guessing) anyway if anyone else here is interested in reading about Relative Spotting this thread will serve as a good reminder (or introduction) to the concept. There are 8 pages of posts and some of it is somewhat confrontational, but it never turned into a real flame war, (close perhaps) but just a few differing opinions as to how it should work and what it should accomplish. here's the thread this is page 7 of 8 with Steve comments in it: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=024461;p=7 page 8 was the final page: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=024461;p=8 This is probably my favourite aspect of the future potential/possibility of the re-write. Mostly because I think it will be very challeging and complicated to get it to work well so it will be both realistic AND fun to play (with EFOW of course ) -tom w [ September 10, 2002, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

this is it CMBO and CMBB won't run on NEW macs after sometime in 2003...... Mac OS X only booting in 2003 by Jim Dalrymple, jdalrymple@maccentral.com September 10, 2002 6:05 am ET Apple on Tuesday told attendees of Apple Expo Paris that its Macintosh computers would lose the ability to boot in the older Mac OS 9 operating system in 2003. While customers will no longer be able to boot their machines in OS 9, they will still have the option to run the OS in the Classic environment in OS X. "We expect that 20 percent of our entire installed base will be using Mac OS X by the end of this year, making it the fastest operating system transition in recent history," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO. "Now it's time for Apple and our third-party developers to focus all of our resources exclusively on Mac OS X, rather than dividing them between two different operating systems." Apple switched its default boot operating system at Macworld Expo in San Francisco earlier this year -- according to Apple, 75 percent of customers have chosen to keep OS X as the default operating system. Appple said in a statement today that the company has an estimated 3 million Mac OS X users and expects to reach 5 million Mac OS X users -- or more than 20 percent of the installed base -- by the end of this calendar year. "We're happy to see Apple take this next step to drive adoption of Mac OS X," said Kevin Browne, general manager of the Macintosh Business Unit at Microsoft Corp. "Mac OS X has really come of age with the release of 'Jaguar,' and we think the combination of OS X v10.2 and Office v. X for Mac provides our customers with the power and compatibility they're seeking."

I would love to see something along these lines. Put it on the wish list to go in "some day". Michael</font>

Extreme Fog Of War! -tom w

Goanna Member Member # 195 posted September 09, 2002 12:04 PM "Honestly Steve, did you put the same time into crafting the demo scenarios as others in the full game? If not, after you have gotten your core return customers and you have time, I would recommend going back and providing new or improved demo scenarios with CMBB so that those of us who could make you converts from the twitch crowd can do so ever so much easier. I think it is possible using your engine to make demo scenarios that fulfil your stated purpose above and also draw in new customers (even some twitchers). If you want some help in designing, editing or polishing them, I would be more than happy to help for no charge if the pros you already have on board are too busy." this must be that Silver Lining they talk about in the Dark Cloud no doubt about it Goanna posted the suggestion first. It would be interesting to see what the community at large comes up with for a "suitable" third additional Demo scenario. Can we discuss the objective, target audience/market, parameters and goal(s) of the assignment and any possible limitations that it might have? (size?) (sorry, I'm sort of in the education business my self so I like to have a clearly defined assignment with all the silly questions like "When is it due? and "How big can it be?" answered up front. Who will judge this contest and what is the judgeing criteria? Is there a scale or rubric to base the score or mark on? If not, a rubric for scoring should be proposed and discussed and agreed upon prior to judging. Also there will be some issue here with the fact that not everyone will receive the own copy of CMBB at the same time, most notably folks outside the USA will be subject to the slow down of the customs modifier in the delivery routine ) BUT it is a GREAT idea I am happy to credit Goanna with its origin has I believe he was the first to post it Good work Goanna! -tom w [ September 09, 2002, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

The Death Clock and Extreme Fog Of War are Hits for SURE! -tom w

Thanks for all your responses and insightful suggestions. Thanks also to BFC for not locking or moving this thread. the issue (offending files) were pre-existing prefs of BOTH Illustrator 8 AND 9 and 9.1 so there was MASS confusion surrounding Prefs files and multiple users if you have this problem you must remove all the old prefs (Doh!) and then copy the new Illustrator prefs from the prefs file in the system folder to the prefs folder in the limited user account. its EASY if there no other prefs around to mess you up. Thanks again -tom w

Wow! Goanna,... nicely put! Very diplomatic and polite too -tom w

Perhaps Steve and Charles and the rest of the BFC crew can take some solice in the fact that most of this thread is ONLY whinning or complaining about the "choice" or the feel or flavour of the demo scenario's themselves and not the game or game play or game mechanics in any way. From what I can see you might say that if all we have to bitch about is that we don't like the kind of scenarios we got in the demo then the game is GREAT and you guys did a GREAT job. (I got a good nights sleep last night! it makes all the difference in the world!) I'm sure the presales are going extremely well and when the game ships everyone will be happy. cheers -tom w AND we should applaud the remarkalble tolerance for not locking this thread. I had thought by this morning it would be locked and a thing of the past .

no one here has said the game it self is not GREAT, in fact I figure most folks here have already pre-ordered it. What we are talking about is the choice of scenarios and the rationale behind not making at least one demo scenario more "cross over' customer friendly, meaning that perhaps one scenario could have had a higher FUN Factor in order to appeal to a wider non-wargamer market (perhaps). But, Steve has reminded us that you can't please all the people all the time so the FREE demo scenarios we got were their best effort at marketing their latest master piece of a war game.(I mean that sincerely.) It does not matter much really, all the hard-core wargamers will buy it anyway, no matter what the demo scenarios showed us. -tom w [ September 08, 2002, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

ok Discretion is the better part of valour you should be decorated for your discretion So I will feel free to award you the BFC Medal of Forum Civility Honour for your edited post. -tom w [ September 08, 2002, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

I don't doubt that it's impossible to represent the scope of CMBB in the demo, but to me the demo is missing a real "killer" scenario. I was impressed with the scope of the Citadel map, and by the mechanics of the Yelnia scenario, but neither showcase the combat element as the CMBO demos did, nor do they provide a really good showcase for PBEM. I think you're preaching to the converted, which is fine in itself, but I'd personally like to see more people seduced by the game engine you've crafted. However, it's your bat and ball, so you make the rules. </font>

Steve said "I find it really odd that some people think that we should be chasing after people that don't want to play our kind of games. This is suicide in the games business. If we get cross over customers (and we do to a large extent, contrary to the opinion of some) it isn't because we dumbed down the game. Steve " To be honest Steve I think Jarmo and myself were only lobbying for a third or possibibly just one of the original two scenarios that would be perhaps been more likely to appeal to those "cross over customers" you refer to. The point being here that CMBB was more than likely to be have been a SURE sale to anyone who likes and plays CMBO. I think that is a no brainer. So the suggestion was to offer at least one demo scenario to attempt to appeal a little more to the cross over customer. Now I know you might reply with something like: "Surely tom how much do you know about the video game marketing business? What was the last title you produced and marketed?" Good questions Surely you folks have be wildly successful so far. We were just suggesting that maybe one demo scenario could have had a little more "mass market, or cross-over appeal" based on the fact you have us (CMBO players) won over from the get go no matter how unappealing or distastful we found the demo scenarios. nothing more but thanks for the dialogue in this thread And Thanks for CMBB and CMBO! -tom w

"Battlefront.com Administrator Member # 42 posted September 08, 2002 06:04 PM quote: unfortunate, as CM has lost much of its visceral appeal. Cool! And let me tell you, it was hard to do too. One year ago we thought we were done with development, but we said "crap, it is still really fun and playable. Let's spend another year making sure it sucks". Looks like we succeeded, so I hope you preorder and make it worth our while Steve " OK that WAS funny!! Its a good thing Steve as not lost his sense of humour! ROTFL -tom w

Hi Steve Thanks for the post Just to be fair I was not one of the whinners on the "SS not in the CDV version" issue. BUT I am thrilled to see optics modeled in CMBB ! See I still have a sense of humour -tom w [ September 08, 2002, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

ok well, ... except for the fact that someone's son actually killed himself in the family's basement... "Sad, but imho it's just Darwinism working it's magic." that would be funny. -tom w

good points are we then left to wonder if the War in the East (as modeled in CMBB) was a one sided affair? (at least one sided in the early years for the Germans and then again one sided in the later years for the Soviets?) the scenarios (if they are both selected from among the MANY did they say 60?) could be interpretted as representive of other scenarios which, while historically accurate could be considered largely one sided engagenments, where one side with all the armour over runs the other side with little or no armour, like the scenario on the steppe? :confused: -tom w

Here's an idea (probably useless ): if you live close to the border, you might try coming down and renting a Post Office box. Then give that as your address to BFC. When you think CMBB is about due, drive down and check on your box every couple of days. Then, when it arrives, hand carry it across the border. BTW, the P.O. will require proof of your current address, such as a piece of mail addressed to you, before they will rent you a box, but that should present no difficulties. Michael</font>

that is my understanding EXACTLY. It has nothing to do with how long it takes the crew to bail out it has everything to do with how the tac AI perceives the tank as a threat, this new FEATURE (and I LOVE it!) adds a little FOW to an armour battle so the tac AI of the attacking AFV does not instantly know the target is dead and instantly acquire a new target like in CMBO. this new Death Clock is the solution to the problem of robotic like targeting in AFV's when the tac AI knew the instant an enemy AFV was knocked out. Now the attacking tank is NOT sure so they keep firing. Now picture this, what if... (has happens ALOT in CMBO) two tanks fire and knock each other out instantaneously in one shot, niether tank (or the TAC AI) will know it until they both bail out, this is now a variable timing thing so that other units in the game don't know if the tank is dead or not, so both (soon to be dead) tanks will now have different bail out times, this will allow other units from both sides to continue firing until bail out. I think this feature works GREAT!!!! Many HUGE Kudo's to Charles (and MaddMatt I think) for the stroke of genius to come up with and impliment this work-around in a game engine that only knows TWO states for tanks (Alive, or Dead and Abandoned, (and state 2a: Dead and abandoned and on FIRE). so the death clock serves to keep the tank "alive" for the purpose of the TAC AI so that other enemy units perceive it as a threat until the death clock expires and the tac AI sees the crew bail and knows the tank is abandoned. Thanks again! -tom w [ September 08, 2002, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

Well, what is written in the christian bible: 'You don't need to heal the healthy' (or similar, I have no English bible) We buy the game anyway. It is true that we can see some of the new commands, but what does it mean for someone who is new to the game? Nothing.</font>

I agree We need an Aussie or East Asian co-conspirator ( ) here to bump this thread as we sleep as we are both in North America EFOW should be on the front burner and should be on the to do list for a post-release patch as it is still not 'extreme' enough to be totally realistic IMHO. Claymore, don't worry about the pre-order thing at ALL! you are in the States so you will get your game first as ALL us canucks up here MUST wait for the DAMN Canada customs to clear our mail and that could take up to 2-4 WEEKS! extra (they ARE all federal employees after all as you might guess!) cheers! -tom w [ September 07, 2002, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

18 k so far in Pre-sales alone $45 x 401 (orders) = $18,045.00 Ch-CHING! -tom w