aka_tom_w

I have this problem too was there ever a solution posted? -tom w

interesting thread. -tom w

That is "supposedly" clearly in violation of the distribution license agreement UNLESS something has changed recently?? :confused: -tom w

double post oops [ December 21, 2002, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

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oops sorry it looks ok to me (I'm using a 1024x768 screen size and it looks fine) BUT it do know what you mean, I did not delete the carriage returns, sorry, fortunately I know that you are not in need of such a Primer/Quick Start quide yourself so I am not so worried maybe I should just post the link? :confused: -tom w [ December 21, 2002, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

If anyone has a few extra "spare" hours (OK Maybe AFTER Christmas) this Delightful Primer might be edited and updated for those new to CMBB. Most of the core concepts are the same. It could just use a few minor additions like Cover arcs and a note or two about the new orders.... Good luck to all the new players... -tom w

from this thread: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=025064 thanks to Thermopylae Member Member # 3395 posted June 07, 2002 07:11 PM One Primer, Soon to be sent somewhere... My First Burning Sherman, a CM primer. for the original CMBO Primer NICE work! See Dorosh's post below as it is NICELY formated there Thanks to Michael -tom w [ January 01, 2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

here it is !! how about this: from this thread: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=025064 Thermopylae Member Member # 3395 posted June 07, 2002 07:11 PM One Primer, Soon to be sent somewhere... My First Burning Sherman, a CM primer. Contents 1.The Really Basic Stuff 1.1 The CM Camera 1.2 Selecting Units & Issuing Orders 1.3 Movement Orders and Waypoints 1.4 Targeting Orders 1.5 The LOS tool 1.6 Hiding 1.7 Ambush 2. HQ Concepts 2.1 Command Radius and Platoon Leaders 2.2 Command Delay 2.3 Command Bonus 2.4 Higher HQs 3. Indirect Fire 3.1 Forward Observers and off map Arty 3.2 On Board Mortars Chapter 1: The Really Basic Stuff 1.1 The CM Camera First and foremost, CM involves a 3D battlefield. This often makes for an initially confusing experience, as you whip around a lot and tend to lose track of things, but is quickly overcome. Controlling the camera is relatively simple. Merely place the cursor at the top of the screen as if you were scrolling to go forward, bottom of the screen to reverse, and left or right to turn the camera that direction. Alternatively, the arrow keys may be used with the arrows all performing the same function as placing the mouse on that portion of the screen. ( Up goes forward, left turns left, etc.) Next, there are several different camera angles the player can work from, being numbered 1-8. You may switch to a view at any time by pressing the appropriate number. The first four views are complete 3D views, as follows: 1. Ground Level: The camera is kept skimming just off the ground, about the height of a soldier’s head. This is useful for plotting sneaky movements along depressions and watching replays, but easily becomes thoroughly confusing. I recommend staying away from it during the orders phase. 2. Not Quite Ground Level: To be honest, this is the least useful view in CM. It angles the camera downward, but remains fairly zoomed in, and as such you can’t see much beyond the immediate area. Makes for some cool screenshots though. (Which, by the way, can be taken w/ alt + print screen) 3. Local Command View: This is the equivalent of having the camera hovering in a church steeple above the ground. It is useful for judging elevation, lines of sight and so forth, and is essentially the view from which to micromanage. Usually this view can be used to command a platoon or two, or individual tanks, without any difficulty. 4. Command View: If you are ever confused by what the camera is doing, hit 4, center the cursor, and rotate until you see a friendly unit or particular landmark. This view lets you examine the entire battlefield in 3D, and is thus the most important one in the game. Views 5-8 are top down maps of various zoom levels. Not particularly useful compared to View 4, but they do have their moments. Note: Shift C can be used to increase the image size of your units, making finding them easier. Shift B toggles unit bases on or off, providing large squares of color to highlight units. 1.2 Selecting Units and Issuing Orders To select a unit, place he cursor over it and left click. You can then either ENTER to view the unit’s vital statistics, TAB to center the view behind the unit, or an orders hotkey to, well, give an order. To select a group of units, drag a box around them, or double click their HQ (see HQ concepts) To give orders to a unit, right click on it. For a group, right click one unit of the selected group. Upon your click, a list of orders will appear, as well as an orders line (a colored line with a white box at the end) what you do with this depends on the order. Either way, you move the orders line as you would the mouse cursor. 1.3 Movement Orders Once you have selected a unit to give orders to, as mentioned above, select a movement command (see list at end of this numeral). You will now have an orders line with a white box at the end of it. This white box represents where you will tell your unit to move upon left clicking, the orders line represents the path they’ll take. Often enough, however, you will not want your units to move in a straight line to a destination. To create waypoints in a movement path, drag the orders line to the designated waypoint and right click. You will now have locked that waypoint in, and will have a new orders line originating from that point. On the final leg, left click to seal the orders. Note: Group orders cannot be waypointed. They also just replicate an order for the entire formation. Thus, run 250m at 27 degrees to that building becomes run forward 250m at 27 degrees to all units in the group. Movement Orders (Infantry) Run: Men run forward without stopping until they reach their destination, are all killed, or more likely, become damn fed up with being shot. They will fire at targets of opportunity. Some units, like MGs, cannot run. Move: Men walk forward as per conditions of run. Less fatiguing. Sneak: Unit treads forward stealthily (less likely to be spotted, won’t commence fire while moving) and will stop and return fire if fired upon. Typically they’ll find cover as well. (This is sort like a "Movement to Contact" order, use this if you want to advance and have your infantry STOP and return fire when fired upon, in the case of Move and FAST they keep moving forward no matter what while under fire, I suggest you use SNEAK all the time when there "might" be an enemy contact in your path!) Crawl: Units crawl forward with a low tolerance for incoming fire. Best used behind walls/hedges. Will not fire while moving. Very stealthy, very slow. Withdraw: Unit runs away as fast as possible with no command delay. (See HQ concepts) can only be used towards friendly map edge, and risks severe morale penalties. Halt: Cancels all movement orders. Vehicles: Move: Universal walking pace. Fast: Vehicle zips at top speed towards destination. Hunt: Unit moves forward at a medium pace, and will stop to engage any vehicle sit spots. Reverse: Vehicle will move backwards to destination at a medium-fast speed. 1.4 Targeting Orders There are two basic targeting orders in the menu. The first is the simple TARGET command. Upon clicking this, an order line will appear for you to drag to either a target unit or terrain feature. If you highlight an enemy unit, a small data readout on your firepower and their exposure will be shown for infantry targets, or a hit chance/kill chance if you target a hard vehicle with a non-small arms weapons. Small arms versus vehicles only display the target name. Left clicking on this unit will make it the primary target of your selected unit. Note: If you do not have LOS to the target, (the orders line will turn orange up to the point of blockage and black thereafter), left clicking will just set it as a priority target for your unit, which will try to fire on it if it comes into view. The TARGET command, when used on a terrain feature, creates an area fire order. The unit under command will fire to try and suppress that patch of ground until the TAC AI decides it’s a really bad idea (i.e. enemies show up 10m on the left of the unit) or you cancel the order. This is NOT as effective as targeting individual units. The NEXT TARGET command rapidly cycles you through targets the unit can see and the TAC AI thinks worthy of shooting full of holes. Note that this sometimes means you won’t be able to target some units with NEXT TARGET. (Just use the Hot Key "N" select a unit and hit the "N" key to see all the targets it "thinks" it can shoot at. You can Cycle through all your units with the "+" and "-" keys. Just hit + to hop to the next available unit, and then hit "N" to see what it can shoot at. I prefer to play with Unit Bases ON (Shift and I like to have all my target line and Movement Paths on as well, Shift "P" to cycle through those options. When Selecting units in Vehicles this can be tricky so sometimes you need to Shift V to turn off the graphic on all vechicles so you can jut see the occupnats. Hope that helps. 1.5 The LOS tool. Essentially, the LOS tool functions exactly like a TARGET command, but clicking will not assign a target. 1.6 Hiding In order to generally remain unseen, the HIDE command is used. There is no order line. The unit merely hits the dirt and qualifies as hiding. Once a until is hiding, it will try to refrain from opening up until it has a good chance to kill enemies (or the unit “freaks out”, more likely with low experience troops), it starts receiving heavy fire, or it gets the bejesus beaten out of it and runs away (Usually accomplished with artillery). While hiding, troops are very difficult to spot, but suffer a minor spotting penalty themselves. To stop hiding, re-issue a hide command or give any regular order. To Hide at the end of a movement order, plot the movement order, and then issue a hide order. The unit will move to its destination and then hide. Note: Vehicles and HIDE are just a bad combination. Vehicles do not actually hide, what they do is quiet there engines down so they won't end up as a sound contact to the enemy, if you have a tank waiting in ambush, behind a house or a hill or something (clearly out of LOS) then select Hide for the tank (while it is NOT moving) and it will quiet down its engine so as not to makes sounds the enemy can detect as a sound contact of enemy armour. IMHO this is of very dubious value . 1.7 Ambush Markers Sometimes you’ll want to custom tailor an ambush beyond just hiding and hoping something wanders into range. To do this, select either an HQ or a crew served weapon (like a bazooka) and then select the AMBUSH command. This will generate a targeting order, which you can then drag to anything within ~400m. Upon left clicking, an ambush marker will be set at the end of the targeting line. In the case of HQs, this marker represents a pre-planned ambush, and other units under the HQ’s command (see HQ concepts) can target it to participate in the ambush. When an enemy unit crosses this point, the units that have targeted the marker will fire on the enemy. For crew served weapons, the marker merely serves as an ambush for that weapon, and other units may not target it. This would be the equivalent of telling a bazooka to fire when a tank shows up at that break in the hedgerow. 2 HQ Concepts 2.1 Command Radius and Platoon Leaders All infantry squads in the game are assigned to a particular platoon. Ever platoon has an attached HQ unit which is its commander. In addition to representing the actual command staff of the platoon, this unit represents its center of effort and cohesion. As such, all units must stay within a certain range of their HQ in order to be “In command.” This range is the command radius of the HQ. The radius increases with experience and particularly good leaders, and decreases in thick terrain or if the subject unit is out of LOS. Units that are in command have a red line leading from them to their command unit. Units that are out of command have a black line. A Platoon HQ shows all lines, red or black, to its organic squads. Note: Infantry squads cannot be commanded by platoon HQs from other platoons, but crew served weapons can be under anybody’s command. Units that are out of command suffer morale and fighting penalties, delayed reaction times to orders, and do not get the benefits of any command bonuses that HQ might have. 2.2 Command Delay For movement orders, your men do not react automatically. Every movement order has a time delay before it actually begins. More experienced troops, troops who aren’t being suppressed, and troops that are fully rested have better reaction times than their counterparts. The biggest factor, however, is whether or not the unit is in command. Units that are out of command seem to suffer an additional 66% time delay. This doesn’t mean much to the best of the best whose reactions are incredibly fast anyhow, but for regular troops that’s an additional 13 seconds at least. 2.3 Command Bonus Not only do HQ units allow those under their command to fight to the fullest extent of their abilities, but often they add bonuses to unit performance. Units must be in command to receive these bonuses. The 4 areas of command bonuses are: Combat: Adds to the firepower/accuracy of the firing units as if they were more experienced. Is represented by a lightning bolt in the unit bar. Morale: Troops have the morale equivalent of an additional level of experience for each level of this bonus. Heart in the unit bar. Stealth: Troops are generally stealthier and spot other units better. Question mark in the unit bar. Command: Command delay is changed as if the unit were one level of experience better for each level of this bonus. Also creates a larger command radius. Star in the unit bar. Each bonus may be either one level (represented by the symbols above) or two, (above symbols surrounded in a gold box) 2.4 Higher HQs Besides platoon HQs, there are also Company and Battalion HQs in CM. One of these HQs automatically assumes command of any infantry squads in command radius not in command, and all crew served weapons in its command radius. They will not, however, assume command of infantry squads under the command of their platoon leaders. 3. Indirect Fire 3.1 Forward Observers/Off board artillery Off board artillery in CM is abstracted through the forward observer unit. Each FO is a team of two men that represents one off board battery. An FO does not fight like a traditional infantry unit, rather when the TARGET command is used, creating a blue target line. An artillery strike is requested on the targeted location. In the unit information bar, you should see the time remaining until the artillery strike arrives. Allied times are usually better, and smaller caliber weapons are typically faster to respond as well. Once there is one minute left until the strike, the time will start counting down in seconds. Around halfway through a few spotting rounds will fall, and then when the timer hits zero the battery will start firing for effect, unleashing volleys of four shells at a time. It will keep firing until the battery runs out of ammo or you cancel the fire mission. It is possible for the FO to request artillery strikes outside of its LOS. Simply drag the target line out of LOS (it will turn orange and black, orange for what he can see, black for what he can’t) and select an area to target. However, these strikes take about twice as long to arrive, and are inaccurate in comparison to a spotted strike. Also, you may wish to shift a fire mission a minor distance to accommodate for enemy movement or targets of opportunity. To do so, select the TARGET command again, and drag it around the current targeted area. As long as this line remains green, you may re-set the target line for a minor time delay. If you place the new target outside the region in which this line is green, you will have requested a new fire mission, and will have to wait for the full battery reaction time. 3.2 On Board Mortars On Board mortars must have LOS to a target to fire on it, unless they are in the command radius of an HQ unit. If a mortar is in command, it may fire at anything the HQ unit can see, even if the mortar itself cannot. Most mortars on board also have a minimum and a maximum range they can fire. These will be indicated by an “OUT OF RANGE” readout above the point of the target lien when issuing a firing order.

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where is that "quick Start guide"?? (post/thread) someone wrote a GREAT intro/tutorial/FAQ/quick start manual and posted in this forum in its own thread it had a fancy name and none of the words or names above are what the author used to label/name it. Does anyone remember the name of that thread or post that had the 'Idiot's guide' (not the title) to begining to learn CMBB from scratch in it??? :confused: Anyone .... anyone? -tom w PS that thread or post was SO GOOD IMHO that it deserves to have its OWN forum NOT thread FORUM as the place for all noobs to start out. OR at least its very own web page [ December 21, 2002, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

sorry to digress...... But did someone answer this question? "If that is what some folks here are asking for, how do we know that and advance or assault order in one direction WITH a "area fire" order in the opposite direction doesn't do exactly that? OK, sure, in the game we see the little pixel soldiers turn their backs and go the other way but do they continue to fire in the direction they were ordered to (back at the enemy) as they "advance" in the direction they were ordered to "withdraw" to?? (I honestly don't know as I have not tested or witnessed this so I am asking??)" Can someone address that issue? When assaulting in one direction can you target and fire in the opposite direction? :confused: curious -tom w

The answer is on page 47-48 it is very clear about this, Andrew H is correct -tom w [ December 20, 2002, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

thats a GREAT tip I don't play operations so I don't really care about this .... BUT if true, (I'm sure it is) "if you can target it, the tank isn't burnt out; if you can't, it is" then thats really all you need to know? Thanks! -tom w [ December 20, 2002, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

Have you Played Panzer Elite? They turn into BLACK stealth tanks when they are knocked out almost immediately. the dead tanks in that game JUST become BLACK hulks with smoke coming out of them. That might be interesting for the engine re-write? I doubt we will see it before then -tom w

Roger THAT! Fellow Sys Admin type guy ! -tom w

I would say CMBB is not meant to be a beginner's wargame. It is quite a remarkable WWII combat simulator. Many of us here have been playing card board wargames for over 15-20 years and spend the majority of our life growing up dreaming about things like FOW. (thats a big one as there is No fog of war in most card board wargames as both players see all the units irrespective of LOS or spotting as in most games there is no spotting rules.) The attention to detail and the historical fidelity combined with the new morale model in CMBB make it a very demanding game to play. This is what the designers want and it was what most hard core wargamers respect and expect in a well made combat simulation. It is hard to play BUT manual is Great and you can now buy the $15 strategy guide which will help you learn real world tactics that work well in the game. I did not like the demo's at all. if you want to win at the demo play the German side in the one on the Russian Steppe. maybe someone else can remind us, the demo scenario seemed unbalanced and in each of them one side was ALOT easier to win with then the other side but I don't recall which specific advice to give. Thanks Good luck Keep at it, It really is rewarding to WIN! -tom w [ December 19, 2002, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

#1 = Charles Battlefront.com Administrator Member # 1 posted September 20, 2002 12:54 PM "Expect some news about this very shortly." Charles

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pickin' it up here Boss! And ifin they catch ya, you won't just get a night in the BOX! he he -tom w

It "sort of" sounds like some people in this thread are suggesting that the thing that is missing in CMBB is the order that says (like in the movies) "withdraw carefully by walking backwards in crouching position and continue to lay down supressive fire toward the enemy". , If that is what some folks here are asking for, how do we know that and advance or assault order in one direction WITH a "area fire" order in the opposite direction doesn't do exactly that? OK, sure, in the game we see the little pixel soldiers turn their backs and go the other way but do they continue to fire in the direction they were ordered to (back at the enemy) as they "advance" in the direction they were ordered to "withdraw" to?? (I honestly don't know as I have not tested or witnessed this so I am asking??) :confused: I must admit I have never really had a problem with this aspect of the game BUT I am enjoying reading this thread like a good article or a fine novel because Steve and Fionn are posting it. I must admit I do miss a contribution from Redwolf on this issue ! (in fun) -tom w [ December 19, 2002, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

Member Status: Junior Member Member Number: 573 Registered: December 04, 1999 Posts: 27 Truly amazing The Lurker of the Year Award goes to Stryker! -tom w

OK That sounds about right. -tom w [ December 18, 2002, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

what is the advantage of HTML briefings? I just don't understand the suggestion :confused: Has this come up before. Why do we need HTML briefings? -tom w