George MC

Yeah as I said not looked into it in great detail. But what I know from both German and Soviet sources is there was noted or mentioned mass killing of German Panthers tanks on the 18 August 1944 in and around Tluszcz. There was more intense tank fighting on the 19 but this was further north of Tluszcz (in and around Kruze and Kozly) and involved Wiking and Totenkopf armour primarily. Neither the Totenkopf war diary or the Wiking war diary note heavy casualties of Panthers in one small locale, though both units took some small losses in Panthers but nowhere near the eight shown in the photo.Soviet war diaries (this fighting mainly involved elements from the 8th Guards Tank Corps) don't mention a mass killing of Panthers but no record German armoured attacks which ties in with the German primary sources. But the terrain shown in the images does appear to tie in with the locale I have highlighted in the above period map excerpt (which is 1:25,000 scale) but not the number of knocked out Panthers. As does the video. FYI Fluegel's kampfgruppe on the 18 August had I estimate 12 tanks operational (1 Panther earlier in the afternoon blew up - Fluegel believed the crew after having run out of ammo and surrounded by Soviet infantry had blown it and themselves up). Three tanks were KOd during the breakout with nine managing to breakout. The II./SS-Pz.Rgt 5 Battalion Adj. Schiker was badly injured when his Panther drove into a crater in the early hours of the 19th and was subsequently destroyed. Two others were KOd by Soviet action - one by AT gun and one by tank hunter detachment. But all these were at different locations although close to or around Tluszcz. So yeah no idea about the eight burning Panthers shown in the video - I guess could be propaganda shot and the Soviets hauled a load of abandoned or already KOd Panthers and set fire to them. That has some agency as the video shows civilians walking past the KOd panthers. Given even on the 19 Aug this was a very active and confused battleground I'd be surprised at civilians a/ being the area (as many/most had been moved out by the Germans earlier) and b/walking casually along that railroad as this was the main attack sector for Soviet units so be a risky place to stroll along for lots of reasons. Just to muddy the waters a facebook group who have been Iding and matching images of Wiking Panthers to the corresponding number of tank tentatively ID the foreground tank (II01 befehlpanther) as having belonged to the II./SS.Pz.Rgt 5 stab by matching distinguishing features. https://www.facebook.com/groups/703371800589703/permalink/868394734087408 So if propaganda it would mean taking stills of the Panthers and an aerial image plus filming it so all seems a lot of trouble for a propaganda shot though? Still its an interesting wee puzzle.

I’m seeing long narrow fields when I close my eyes just now… oh posters… yeuch. Share your dislike!

Thank you Yeah that’s one avenue to check. 3SS were on Wiking right flank. That area is right on their boundary. Just not had the time to double check. But it’s also where Flügel’s unit was. Interesting wee puzzle.

Aye low ammo loadout (35ish rounds?) and two piece ammo - so yup slow to reload, and IIRC it equated to about half the rate of fire of the T-34/85, the other main tank at the time.

These were from a facebook group and appear to have originated on a Chinese instagram post! I’ve tried reverse image search but to no avail. I can’t find aerial image on NCAP but it must be somewhere out there. As I said it’s an interesting series as it is evidence that the Wiking attack ran into trouble but no German or Soviet source verifies this. The video shows burning panthers but no idea of provenance though some of the shots tie in with the photos. I know for sure one Panther was defo lost in this area after crew blew themselves up… others were KOd during their withdrawal overnight. Interestingly the number of Panthers corroborates with the number of Panthers that Flügel’s immediate command had by end of the day - and before their attempt to withdraw. I’ve not research these images in detail - just don’t have the time - but it’s an interesting puzzle they pose. I’ve had comms with Douglas Nash who has the unit war diaries and no mention of the unit being ambushed and losing eight Panthers. Flügel’s surviving Panthers did make it out minus a few and immediately went back into action. This corroborated by both German and Soviet sources. Yup. Puzzling.

Ha! Ha! Thank you Yeah I’ve got a technique for adding em. Still slow but means minimum faff. Luckily they are waaay down the to do list in this project. I’m keeping open an option of trimming the map so don’t want a load of flavour objects shifting if I do!

He! Aye, yup if I was having my future foretold it be - “ I see haystacks…thousands of haystacks!”

Managed a wee run at terraforming. Might be it for a wee while, so pleased with this bonus progress. Most of the work has ben tidying up around Jasienica and creating Borki and its surrounding fields. So first image is overall view of the map looking NE. Jasienica is the long village in the top centre, and just behind is Borki. Slightly closer view of Jasienica. Looking through Jasienica to Borki. The wee village/collection of farms that is Borki So the scene above shows the main combat area where towards late morning/mid-day on the 18 August 1944 II. BtL./Germania's two other companies, (the 5. and 6), were nearly overrun southwest of Tluszcz near Jasienica by Soviet tanks and infantry that had broken through Jadwinin (which is off-map in the top left hand side of the map) before a counterattack launched by SS-Hauptsturmführer Hans Flügel II. Abt./SS-Pz.Rgt. 5, supported by a Schutzenpanzerwagen company from Ill Btl./Germania, drove them off after destroying 12 Soviet tanks . The SPW company pulled back leaving Flügel's small panzergruppe on their own. This lack of infantry support would come back to bite them later and set the scene for his command's rather harrowing next 12 hours - an episode he describes in detail and printed in full in Ewald Klapdor's history 'Viking Panzers'. Anyway before that 'adventure' his panzergruppe attacked from (through?) Borki, and the 7th and 8.Kp./SS-Pz.Rgt.5 were immediately engaged and cut to pieces the Soviet infantry who had pushed forward. Twelve Russian tanks were destroyed during this fight*. NOTE: I have the original combat diary of 8th Guards Tank Corps and my translation states they went into action at 1200Hrs -1230Hrs. It also mentions 1500Hrs but I'm unable to confirm what happened at that point as its very unclear. looking at what happened next i think they simply by-passed Flügel's command on its east side (it was becoming pinned by Soviet infantry infiltrating through woods to its side and rear) and headed over the rail embankment - but TBH the whole fight in this area was one huge sprawling dogfight. *There is an interesting side note to this as I have found some evidence that his command was ambushed and lost a lot of Panthers BUT there is no record of this happening either from the German or Soviet side. So I do wonder if these images show his command pinned - he mentions they pretty much sat there watching Soviet infantry march past... Do the images show his command sitting tight and playing doggo? I turned this upside down so top of the image is north. There is this video also...

I used this set-up for CMFR Feierabend - fight a delaying action then retire when ordered. It's a tough one to fight.

They do run out of ammo quickly - so just keep your tanks hopping about...

Thank you Ah fields - aye they are finnicky for sure! As you say worth it though in terms of realism.

Ah brill cheers ta. I've also been playing with the following apps on my phone - DeepL, Scan and Translate (useful for quick translates)and Translate (not so good). DeepL overall seems pretty good and use Adobe Scan (which seems pretty good at reading hand writing) to get a copy of the document in word which I can then copy and paste into a translate app.

Yeah that would be good. Still I enjoy destroying stuff as well

I've been playing around with various scanning and translating apps. They'll scan the hand written document into a PDF and translate and/or you can copy and paste into google translate. TBh often its hit or very much miss but at least you can often work out the gist of what the hand written document is conveying. Real game changer!

Wee update. Overview of (slow) progress from first post. Spent time creating village of Jasienica. Which is the long village bottom centre of the image below. Comparison with the map I'm working from (its a Russian 1:50 000 but also x-referencing with Polish 1:25 000 just contour inof and other stuff was easier to work with using Russian map as basis for overlay). I'm also checking in with Google earth but this place has changed a lot since 1944. It also shows the compromises I've made in creating the map within the game engine constraints. Few wee techniques used though. 'Dirt lot' tiles make good hard surface dirt roads you can run at any angle. With short grass at the edges it blends in well. Tad wider than required but means easier for player to plot movement orders. As I said I tend to avoid zig-zag roads from personal preference and aim more for the 'feel' of the road/track etc. View of Jasienica - looking NW. View of Jasienica - looking west along the main drag of the village. Looking SE towards the village from the northernmost railtrack. Overview of the map looking NE towards Tluszcz. Ground level view from NW corner of the mpa at the railtrack looking south. Oh and I intend to place lots of craters and then go back over and damage everything....

Excellent

He! Thanks. I have swithered but in truth I dick about a great deal when I make them - often scrubbing hours of work to restart something I cocked up early on and then it comes back to haunt me later (elevations and their relationship to terrain features e.g. roads, houses etc being the key one). Its not seamless!! Might even put people off...

I don’t think so - never confirmed or denied. Reckon too busy researching his next book. Other one coming on thanks. Did some tweaks and about ready to do a test compile. RL has become tad busy so CM time in short supply at the moment unfortunately, hence progress has slowed somewhat.

Spot on. I've had some correspondence with Douglas Nash (who BTW is a super helpful and really nice chap) regarding clarification with events which I was querying involving Fluegel's Knights Cross award. Caused me some confusion as Trang quotes the citation and places it in the 18-19 August timeframe. Confused me no end working out how the Panthers could motor about at will through the middle of a full on Soviet offensive. Long story short the original citation got the date wrong! Both Mr Nash and Ewald Klapdor were right in their framing of the time and place. The map above is the location for the harrowing retreat that his small panzergruppe undertook the night of the 18/19 August and is mentioned in detail in the book. But thats not the action I'll be doing on this map - more the earlier local German counterattacks by Fluegal's panzergruppe against the attacking elements from 8th Guards Tank Corps (Part of 2nd Tank Army) led by Major General Vasily Vasilievich Koshelev (who was a Hero of Stalingrad) and 76th Guards Rifle Division (part of 114th Rifle Corps).

Yup plus damage all the mission critical external mounted systems. So your AFV quickly becomes a 'mission kill' and will have to retire from the action. Probably better than a hunk of smoking metal and the crew charred fragments... But aye never realised though the external damage hard kill APS caused to the vehicle when it was used.

Interesting thread on twitter re APS systems and number of reloads they have and the rationale for them. Of note is even if everything works perfectly, when an APS defeats an ATGM or RPG, a large volume of fragmentation and debris is projected over the vehicle, with a high probability of damaging mission critical components mounted on the vehicle. This is worth a wee read lots of detail in it.

The name is my WIP reference name and refers to a rather confused action around the village of Jasienica and the town of Tluszcz in Poland mid August 1944. This map is fairly large (4x3km) but has been giving me a bit of trouble to sort out. Its low laying terrain with a rather complicated rail network on often embankments. looks easy but trying to get everything to match up... Also progress has been glacial slow due to RL. Still getting there. This is the real world location on period maps and aerial images taken before the actions occurred (though judging by the shell holes it was getting some hot attention from bombing raids I suspect! So first step was sketching out the map in CM. This was pretty quick to do as effectively this is just sketching using the overlay. I'm not a fan of zig-zag roads. So i end up making compromises to 'fit' the overall 'feel' of the road/track/rail. I think this makes it easier for the player in game to plot road movements etc. So I compromise map accuracy for ease of play. The real work comes when you start adding the elevations... This was a tough one as there are also lots of water features. Lots of do and re-do to only re-do-re-do... So slowly taking shape. This is the railtrack at the north of the above maps looking west. Looking south, from the west edge of the north of the map, towards the large wood block (on Google earth they are marked as 'Budziska'. Looking back east from the above wood block - way in distanced will be Tluszcz (not started on that yet) View of current state of work of the map. Only about a 1/4 done regarding terraforming! A looong way to go yet. The view here is the same view as above but slightly higher. I'm just starting doing the village of Jasienica itself (top right), which will take a wee while. Cheery!

Fascinating watching this develop.

Excellent wee vid - thanks for sharing it! Looked like an interesting engagement. I played it as a PBEM and we’d same close encounter in a farm complex when Tiger rolled in and T-34 beat a hasty exit stage rear!

Good skillz! I did do a double take when i first read it! Aye its classic stuff. Reckon the quote that works for this phase of your grand plan is "I am a bawhair away fae perfection..." Looking forward to the next installment!