Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Junglist

The Wednesday Night Fight!

Recommended Posts

Well it's about time we had a mid-week fight night, don't ya think? Let's say roughly 8ish EST, or there abouts. Unfortunately this will most likely exclude Europeans, unless any of you are insomniacs. I'll probably be on a bit earlier sometimes, so feel free to drop in and actually fight some real human beans for a change.

Yeah, I know how to spell beings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Count me in! I could use some more excitement. In fact, this game could use a boost in online activity. With another time to play, we could see more people and maybe 4 on 4 will become more regular. Since I'm in Minnesota, I can play for an hour until nature calls (and by that I mean dinner!), so 8 PM EST is fine by me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What happened? Why didn't anyone show up? :confused: And why did Jung cheat on Forsaken by bringing in a extra Bacchus to catch and destroy all my dropships? :mad: I'm waiting. redface.gif

And the New Geneva Space Viking Convention needs a new rule:

Thou shalt not use Bacchuses on certain maps like Forsaken to cheat and eliminate all the enemy's dropshipis at once. All you'll get is one unhappy player.

The only thing I'm certain of is that I beat Jung at Dead Gulch with a good series of turret drops, and I sent a parting gift to him just before I left his set-up at Forsaken, as I sent down fire, brimstone, and smoke on his base.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, you beat me on Dead Gulch, but I can live with that. I wasn't actually bot wrangling as the game had started before either of us logged in and my bots managed to lose all the dropships before I realized. It was indeed a nice turret drop though, don't get me wrong.

As for the cheating accusation on Forsaken, unless specified beforehand, I'm pretty sure any units are fair play. The only thing I did that was kind of sneaky was dropping a bacchus just before deployment was up, but I'm not the only one who does this. When attacking I always assume the enemy has denied aerial access to the entire map, therefore making Priority 1 clearing a portion of the map with expendable units. You made the same mistake I made on Dead Gulch, allowing dropships to be destroyed. I'm sorry if you were annoyed by my attempts at aerial denial, but I doubt you'll let that happen again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, the reason I lost all my dropships on Forsaken is that although I originally put all but of my bots in the deployment zone, they were eventually cut down by your defenses, resulting in them trying to drop to the N side consistently, where you placed you Bacchus to catch them, :( and thus the accusation. While I agree that all units are fair play unless stated otherwise, it was your placement on a field where a missile tower covered most of the area that killed my chances and raised my ire.

Originally posted by Jung

When attacking I always assume the enemy has denied aerial access to the entire map,...

Originally posted by Jung

You made the same mistake I made on Dead Gulch, allowing dropships to be destroyed.

Here's my answer to the first quote: Can anyone else back that claim up? I've never heard you talk about that method as part of your strategy.

As for the second quote: You actually thought I had a choice? When all my bots continued to drop into your Bacchus' basket? After all, if you deny the skies, you force your opponent to use the deployment zones, at which point he's virtually temporarily lost his entire dropship force, since he can't use it until he brings down the air cover, by which time he could have lost his entire dropship force from bots dropping into the fire.

Originally posted by Jung

I'm sorry if you were annoyed by my attempts at aerial denial, but I doubt you'll let that happen again.

Of course. I've got my own variant from hell on your unethical use of Bacchuses for Recon in Force. In this spin-off, I cover the entire field with AA coverage, forcing you to use the deployment zone, the only one on the entire map. Then I mine the deployment zone until it's black with mines, then concentrate turrets and most of my bots (leaving a few around the objective for points) around the zone so when you drop, so you end up in a detonating shooting gallery. Then you might see how you like it when someone sets you up to fall, like you did today.

By the way, thanks for the kudos on my turret drop. Since I was defending the objective, my priority was defense, and the highly concentrated drop I used delivered that in spades. :cool: By the way, did anyone else hop on? I had to leave for dinner. Should we reschedule the Wednesday games to 7 PM EST and hope others can make it, or is some other time in order?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hehe, fell for the old "Bacchus at the last minute trick", eh? :D

Of course. I've got my own variant from hell on your unethical use of Bacchuses for Recon in Force. In this spin-off, I cover the entire field with AA coverage, forcing you to use the deployment zone, the only one on the entire map. Then I mine the deployment zone until it's black with mines, then concentrate turrets and most of my bots (leaving a few around the objective for points) around the zone so when you drop, so you end up in a detonating shooting gallery. Then you might see how you like it when someone sets you up to fall, like you did today.

Try it, or actually don´t. Clearing a mined DZ is easy, just drop 5 cutters nicely spread in the DZ, and the mines are gone in no time, followed by lots of 20mm paladins to take care of the turrets or enemy units nearby.

Other than that you can "combat drop" against a single AA turret. Usually 2-3 of 8 ships make it through if dropped simultaneously(!).

I´ve always thought that the forsaken map (=slugfest, right?) is flawed due to the much too large AA defence. A smaller missile def. at the base would be more balanced. The map was designed before the bacchus came along...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a more theoretical side, some more advice gainst overuse of the bacchus. I call it "tactical overforcing". The trick to any DT game is to have a robust plan, which isn´t always easy. If you constrict the attacker by obviously AAing the whole map with bacchhi, you have planned for the enemy. He now can concentrate his forces by default in the DZ while half your forces are uselessy spread over half the map as Bacchi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are always around the aerial denial game. Flooding the deployment zone with cutters, paladins, and a Thor or two will usually give you that initial push you need to establish a decent front. While this is happening drop some infantry somewhere/anywhere else on the map and start clearing out a spot for later drops. Another technique I employ while faced with total aa coverage is to get a mercury in there with your initial push of cutters and start dropping exploratory sensor jammers to see where the aa turrets might be. If they land successfully you can usually get a dropship down and start clearing away turrets.

Also, if the your enemy commits several bacchus at a start of a game and you manage to kill them off quickly, as the game develops your opponent might find himself screwed by this early use of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by jby:

Try it, or actually don´t. Clearing a mined DZ is easy, just drop 5 cutters nicely spread in the DZ, and the mines are gone in no time, followed by lots of 20mm paladins to take care of the turrets or enemy units nearby.

Yeah, and what if you're in a cauldron of fire from all sides at point blank? :eek:

Originally posted by jby:

He now can concentrate his forces by default in the DZ while half your forces are uselessy spread over half the map as Bacchi.

I agree, and that is another reason not to do what Jung did at Forsaken (unless you're him). The Bacchus has a titanic sensor signature, so my bots will know its location right away. I also agree with Jung about the overuse of Bacchi. Put too many of them away from your defenses and you're doomed to lose them all.

Originally posted by jby:

Usually 2-3 of 8 ships make it through if dropped simultaneously(!).

That's what the bots at the objective I described are for.

Originally posted by jby:

I´ve always thought that the forsaken map (=slugfest, right?) is flawed due to the much too large AA defence.

I agree.

I pretty much followed the pattern laid down in Jung's last post at Forsaken, where all but one of my bots were scheduled to land in the DZ, a mixture of Paladins and a Apollo. But I did place one cutter to the NW for a crater clear approach, where Jung's Baccuhus caught it. I might take jby's advice of being commander next time it's 1-on-1.

Finally, Jung, I'm sorry for blowing sky high, but it was quite a nasty shock to suddenly lose all my dropships and hear you talk about me ending up with the same fate as you. True, aerial denial is part of the game, but what ticked me off was the placement, not the unit itself. Sealing off the S aide of the map with the Bacchus or some AA turrets in order to channel me through the N side of the map could have been another solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Jung that was some game we had this Wednesday, but I really need to learn to time these things better. Nice game, and next time those 20 seconds are coming five minutes sooner!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good fun Phonan! I lost count of the number of times you did a massive redeployment of your troops; my personally fav is the super-quick scuttle en masse you did with the mortars I had emped with just a few minutes left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, what games!

1st round: Slug Fest:

After several failed attempts, I grabbed the flag and a running battle developed. I won on points alone.

2nd round: Sea Cliffs:

Lag intervened, but Jung won anyway. :(

3rd round: The Dam:

All I can say Jung is wow, how did you come up with a turret drop on the dam itself? Finally, from now on, Phonan, we don't go for the NE buildings until later. Even if Jung had had them, if we had held the dam, we have won by a margin of 200 points. But nice infantry action in the end, and we finished off the last of Jung's turrets. smile.gif

One last question, Jung: Did you get your idea of a tight defensive drop from our last round at Dead Gulch? I know I've influenced people somehow because I've often seen STONEWALL up on the hill N of the objective, a tactic I once used to devastating effect against him and jby once.

In that game, I sat on top of the N hill with a Thor and brought the heat to jby and STONEWALL, raining down shells from my position, blowing up their Galaxy, and ruining the turret drop. Still, one has to be careful when using my "Dead Gulch Terminator" tactic, as you can be spotted (that happened to STOWEWALL in our last game, where I knocked him off at several kilometers).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I nearly forgot, at Sea Cliffs, I was getting my ATGM Paladin to the objective from the hill, and I was letting myself coast. I noticed that I was moving very fast and checked my speedometer. 162.5 meters per second!!! :eek: How was that even possible with a wheeled vehicle?! And as if that weren't incredible enough, I hit a rock, did a crazy half roll, half flip :rolleyes: , and ended upright?!?! :eek: :confused: :eek: :eek:

The fastest I've ever gone is 199.9 m/s on Ice FIeld in a Hurricane. But that's a hovercraft on a almost mirror flat surface. This was Sea Cliffs! Does anyone want to challenge my record? tongue.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was fun tonight guys.

Originally posted by 152mmDumbRocket:

One last question, Jung: Did you get your idea of a tight defensive drop from our last round at Dead Gulch?

Sorry to disappoint you 152mm, but I already have a pretty defined Plan A and/or Plan B for most of the maps. At least the objective and territory maps; I tend to just frak around on the ctf games, as you might have noticed. I usually employ a fairly flexible multi-staged attack, almost always culminating in a late game push. The players I learned the most from (or I guess you could say I always got the biggest kick out of beating) were Yurch, Nexus, and jby. This isn't to say you aren't tricksy yourself 152, but you are going to have to do something pretty wacky to come up with something I haven't seen before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The fastest I've ever gone is 199.9 m/s on Ice FIeld in a Hurricane. But that's a hovercraft on a almost mirror flat surface. This was Sea Cliffs! Does anyone want to challenge my record?
Viper- 2,432 m/s

The players I learned the most from (or I guess you could say I always got the biggest kick out of beating) were Yurch, Nexus, and jby.
Yurch-gone

Nexus-gone

jby-here yay!

We haven't seen Yurch since the Bacchus, right? And Nexus... well I can hope he's not gone permanently- if he is his maps will remain with us forever.

As to today's games, well I don't think they were as great as some I've had recently but there were some great moments, like running around in a Paladin KC-M behind Jung's artillery force on Sea Cliffs, especially when I attacked Charlemagne in an Ion Thor. I was driving and skidding like crazy in circles around him, and he was swiveling like crazy to try and hit me. The ridiculous thing is that I had 100 rounds- count 'em, and I spent around 2X that trying to kill some of those Ions and Mortars and nothing died! I shot out a couple engines, blew up some turrets, but a 76mm Paladin just can't seem to kill Thors!

And hey, I was thinking- what if we could get some in-game footage together and make an intro video? If Battlefront were willing to put it in the game, and we put it together, well... of course on the other hand it would be really hard to put together a good-looking intro by ourselves unless someone's got some really nice software. Just a crazy last thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by Jung

but I already have a pretty defined Plan A and/or Plan B for most of the maps.

Well, Jung, my approach is half bot rushing and half thinking up a plan (the price I'm paying for practicing in standalone with mindless bots so often and my good aim).

Originally posted by Jung

I usually employ a fairly flexible multi-staged attack, almost always culminating in a late game push.

I sure wish I could get into the habit! My attacks usually come as fast as I can bring them, with maximum speed in what could be called a bot rush with a small amount of strategy. I'm always worried about losing Mercurys to AA and other sources, so I'm in another bad habit of being reluctant to use them.

Originally posted by Phonan

Viper-2,432 m/s

Wait, I think I did that in a Viper once! And by the way, I was talking about land vehicles when I was talking about records.

Originally posted by Phonan

And hey, I was thinking- what if we could get some in-game footage together and make an intro video? If Battlefront were willing to put it in the game, and we put it together, well... of course on the other hand it would be really hard to put together a good-looking intro by ourselves unless someone's got some really nice software.

I might be able to make that wish come true. I already have a camcorder with which I might be able to record footage using a S-video out jack (my copy of DT is on a PC laptop with cruddy stereo microphones [as you might have noticed :D ], and with no video editing software), then use my Mac's iLife suite to make the intro.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do all the players here currently use Macs? Me, Jung, you 152...

Maybe I'll try something too. I could try s-video out or just software-based recording.

jby excepted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do all the players here currently use Macs? Me, Jung, you 152... jby excepted

Maybe I'll try something too. I could try s-video out or just software-based recording.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can bet that answer is "YES." I still can't highlight the server to join the game (Windows). But, Battlefront made Combat Missions Shock Force so I still like them. However, I do miss shooting you guys. You'll always be targets in my mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×