Herr Oberst Posted November 18, 1999 Share Posted November 18, 1999 Just a quick note... With a 380mm projectile, how accurate do you need to be? Just hit near someone, and one of three things will happen: 1. You actually hit them, and they automatically become MIA since noone can find any parts of them. 2. You hit close to them and they are blasted off the map by the concussion wave. 3. You hit close to them, they aren't blow off the map, but instead are knocked senseless and find themselves at the bottom of a 20 yard, 60 foot deep hole. All equally effective in my book. [This message has been edited by Herr Oberst (edited 11-18-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted November 18, 1999 Share Posted November 18, 1999 Oh well, if the Sturmtiger can't make it in the initial release of CM, then it would make prime material for the add-on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Tiger Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 The Pershing must be near out of sigth...if the 88er should rebound. Please no Sturmtiger...or I put a Train/Rail Gun on my wishlist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 Madmatt - 35mm armour on the T-35 was pretty much standard at the time!! Hard to imagine it now, but at that time anti-tank weapons were all 37-45mm (the Russian 45 was one of hte better ones!), or even smaller (French 25mm!), and anti-tank rfles were "it" for the infantry - from 7.62mm to 20mm. And of course T-35's weer used in reasonably substantial numbers in 1940-41 - you couldn't do a Finnish/Barbarossa version/expansion of CM without them. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 Guyz, Having thought more about the inclusion or exclusion of something like the SturmTiger, I have changed my desire from wanting to see it in action to not wanting to see it at all. The problem I see with adding the Sturmtiger follows. Whenever I play a game with ulitmately powerful German Armor, I am always most happy when the scenario includes ridiculous stuff like Maus's and Panther IIF's. So I don't play with lesser creatures like the Stug III, which due to CM, has gained great admiration by me. I hope that CM doesn't add the SturmTiger and stuff like that, because I will always be more focused on scenarios that utilize that big junk. User-created scenarios will invariably include more and more unrealistic quantities of rearely-used supposedly super-weapons and I would play em. And now I have tasted the CM fruit, seen the effects of coordinated attacks, watched and learned as the Stug III chews apart the defences, and experienced almost first hand the effectiveness of this magnificent creature. BTW thanks Thomm, Madmat & Fionn for the answers. Sincerely, Richard Kalajian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 kingtiger, there will also be 300mm nebelwerfers and 14 inch naval guns available for fire support. That doesn't mean you should use them in your scenarios all the time. Practice a little self-control. I expect most of the well done scenarios to include the more common vehicles and I wouldn't have it any other way. The good designer will keep the rare stuff, rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonFox Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 "A huge square object rises lazily above the trees, turns slowly over and over, then drops back into the writhing forest. '...man tank!' yells Keith, through the bomb detonations,.." Wot no carpet bombing- damn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted November 19, 1999 Share Posted November 19, 1999 Hard to imagine it now, but at that time anti-tank weapons were all 37-45mm (the Russian 45 was one of hte better ones!) The Russian 45mm gun was _really_ good for its time. It could penetrate the armor of just about all tanks in use in '30s from all directions. For example, it could shoot through the T-26 turret ("through" as in "the shot penetrated both front and back sides of the turret"). Also, it was small and a single man can push it on level surface (I managed to try this when I was in army. IIRC, the gun was one of those that were captured from Soviets at Raate road on January '40). The small size made it easy to conceal. The gun remained a threat for German armor for long time. While it could not penetrate the front armor of post-42 tanks, the flanks and rears of Pz-IV and Panther were vulnerable to it, at least from close range. And of course T-35's weer used in reasonably substantial numbers in 1940-41 - you couldn't do a Finnish/Barbarossa version/expansion of CM without them. Well, it seems probable that the T-35 was actually never used against Finns, the reports being misidentifications. (Yes, it is possible confuse T-28s to T-35s if you haven't seen the latter live. Especially, if the only AT weapons you have are demolition charges, molotov coctails, and logs and you are not interested in sticking your head up until the thing is close enough to use them.) - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Belles Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Richard III: No Sturmtiger?? Aaargh, I guess we'll have to make do with the wimpy ol' Jagdtiger... Hey Steve, how about a CM expansion set with some of these stranger vehicles. T28 vs Maus! What a battle! Tortoise vs Pather Ausf. F. etc... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I hate to bring up an oooold topic , but I did a search on the Panzer Maus and came up with this topic. I haven't bought CM yet (plan to, though), and was wondering if the Maus was in there or planned to be there? The Major Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 There's no Maus in CM. There were only a couple prototypes built, anyway. ------------------ War is cruel and you cannot refine it. --Sherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major Belles: I hate to bring up an oooold topic , but I did a search on the Panzer Maus and came up with this topic. I haven't bought CM yet (plan to, though), and was wondering if the Maus was in there or planned to be there? The Major<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No, and no. The Maus never reached production. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob/1 Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 Heavy German tanks are I got a book of Christmas call um Fight land vehicals or somegthing any way did you know that the Tiger tank was droped out of prodution in late 1944 as it was to be replaced be the TigerII(KingTiger) or PanzerV II as it called it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 Well, I hear that one completed version did see combat at the testing grounds against the Russians. ------------------ The difference between infantrymen and cavalrymen is that cavalrymen get to die faster, for we ride into battle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 Where's our CM add-on with the sturmtiger? We waited a whole year for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lee: Where's our CM add-on with the sturmtiger? We waited a whole year for it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No add-on, I guess that is official by now. I started a thread a few weeks ago in which Steve explained it. Opens a can of worms regarding multiplayer compatibility. The Maus seeing combat is unconfirmed AFAIK. Also, on the testing grounds - because it could go nowhere else I presume... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexford Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: We are planning on adding some vehicles in the future. FYI we have a VERY nice looking set of Sturmtiger pics (how all models start out!), but there are way too many other things on the list ahead of it. The most oddball, rare vehicle that will be in CM is the M26 Pershing. We just put the rough model and texture set Sunday. Just watched it duke it out with a Nashorn. Hint... if the Nashorn gets off the first shot on the flank, the Pershing can just forget about getting off a shot! But it is funny to see 88s bounce off the front. Damn fine tank! And if you have about $160k and a very big garage, I know where you can buy one too Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Observations: Nashorn 88mmL71 should be able to penetrate Pershing glacis plate out to 2000m. Pershing hull front is cast armor, which is less resistant than rolled armor. Pershing round mantlet is 113mm cast, 88mmL71 might find this fairly easy pickens on a high percentage of mantlet hits. There was a Super Pershing that had a Panther glacis plate fixed to the frontal armor and the Super Pershing used an extra long 90mm gun. According to Hunnicutt's Pershing, it looked for but never found a Tiger II for a joust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lee: Where's our CM add-on with the sturmtiger? We waited a whole year for it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Perhaps in CM2, especially if a Warsaw uprising Operation is included? There is a fine mpeg available of the Sturmtiger firing a shot in anger during this battle. Mace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 The problem with adding in vehicles like SturmTigers and Maus into the game is that then every time I PBEM with someone I do not know I will have to remember to ban the use of them or we will be seeing dozens of them all the damn time. This problem already exists with the damn pupchen. If that thing worked as well and as cheaply in the actual war as it does in CM, we would all be speaking German! Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntg84 Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 Whats the blast radius of a 380mm HE rocket round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Maenpaa Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rexford: Observations: Nashorn 88mmL71 should be able to penetrate Pershing glacis plate out to 2000m. Pershing hull front is cast armor, which is less resistant than rolled armor. Pershing round mantlet is 113mm cast, 88mmL71 might find this fairly easy pickens on a high percentage of mantlet hits. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I tested (about thirty times) with the latest beta b24 and found that in CM Nashorn can't penetrate Pershing's glacis plate even at 1000 meters. Finally at 700m Nashorn succeeded but even then the penetration wasn't a sure thing. Numerous shots ricocheted from the glacis plate before the actual perforation occured. Also the weaker frontal lower hull plate was impenetrable at 1500 meters range. And it seemed to be almost impossible to hit. Only frontal turret was penetrable at 2000 meters. Depending on your sources (Spielberg?) it might be worthwhile to suggest a recheck on the corresponding armor quality ratings in CM to get them as historical as possible. Maybe there should be a difference between cast and rolled armor. Also the effect of face hardening raised many opinions recently. Anyway it's a big difference between 700 meters and 2000 meters Ari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Warphead- Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Just in case somebody wants to see pictures of the Maus. I visited Kubinka in November and just updated Lindan's and my site with the pics. I stroked the Maus and will never wash my hands again! http://www.nahverteidigungswaffe.de ------------------ ["Haben die Krupp-Werke Betriebsausflug? Da rollt ja halb Deutschland auf mich zu..." (Vincent)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Belles Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Back to the original subject, (the Maus), thanks for the replies; too bad!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ari Maenpaa: I tested (about thirty times) with the latest beta b24 and found that in CM Nashorn can't penetrate Pershing's glacis plate even at 1000 meters. Ari<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Interesting Ari the 8.8 cm L/71 should punch thru the Pershing's frontal armor to & over 1500m & especialy at any range below 1000m with little problem. Regards, John Waters ------------------ "We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field". Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. February 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illo Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 700m and 2000m there is huge difference. This should be corrected right away! BTS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: For Panthers we have three: Panther A Panther G (early, without chin) Panther G (late, with chin) There was no "F". Never made it past the prototype stage. Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I would not say the Ausf. F never made it past prototype stage Steve, as the F was going into series production at 2 German factories when the war ended, as well as Ausf. F chasis were being built and were photographed in the Ausf.G assembly plants as the factories were in the process of switching to Ausf F production. And their is still controversey today on whether or not II/ Pz.Regt 2 used Ausf,F's from the Berlin-Marienfelde Daimler Benz plant, in the fighting for Berlin Regards, John Waters ------------------ "We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field". Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. February 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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