WWII German Inefficiency

[Sgt.Squarehead]

This won't go down at all well with the Reichsfrothers:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/02/nazi-war-machine-spectacularly-inefficient-new-history-claims/

[JonS]

Quote

the “myth” of an  efficient and well equipped Nazi war machine

Well, it's certainly a myth, but Holland is hardly treading new ground here. Attacks on the 'efficient' thing was one of the central planks of Tooze's "Wages of destruction", and it was taking up that slack of that inefficiency that allowed the German economy to function under the hammer blows of the combined bomber offensive. That the Germans weren't well equipped is old news to anyone who's been on these boards for a while - they had individually good or great pieces of kit, but they also had - for example - an artillery park that was obsolete and towed by horses. The ground forces were working hand to mouth in terms of supplies and replacement equipment from at least 22 June 1941, and arguably since 11 May 1940. Which has al been commented on extensively in loads of books over the last couple of decades.

But, yeah, the Reichsfrothers (love that term ) are not going to be happy

 

Edit: wait - that book was released 2 years ago? It's a good read though - I'm looking forward to Vol.2

Edited May 2, 2017 by JonS

[Vanir Ausf B]

Yeah that's a straw man Holland is attacking. The Reichsfrothers can also take solace in the fact that if you want to win at Combat Mission you're better off with the Germans 

Edited May 2, 2017 by Vanir Ausf B

[Michael Emrys]

3 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

...if you want to win at Combat Mission you're better off with the Germans 

At the level of combat that CM portrays, what advantages the Germans possessed come to the fore. It's only at the higher levels where it is divisions and armies that are clashing that Allied (taken here to include the Soviets) advantages become more apparent. There were some advantages that accrued to the Allies at the tactical level, such as the greater availability of spare parts, which meant that the Allies—and especially the Americans—had a higher percentage of their equipment actually functioning, but that kind of thing is not modeled directly in CM in the normal course of play. One does not see it working even if one might see its outcome.

Michael

[sburke]

4 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

Yeah that's a straw man Holland is attacking. The Reichsfrothers can also take solace in the fact that if you want to win at Combat Mission you're better off with the Germans 

That is at least partly because most players really don't want scenarios that are realistic.  People want balance as a game.  If we tried to play the normal kinds of engagements of WW2 we'd have a helluva a lot less Tigers running around  

[Holman]

Maybe we're playing the game Allied soldiers *thought* they were playing, where every PzIV is a Tiger.

[Vanir Ausf B]

3 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

the Allies—and especially the Americans—had a higher percentage of their equipment actually functioning, but that kind of thing is not modeled directly in CM in the normal course of play. One does not see it working even if one might see its outcome.

 

2 hours ago, sburke said:

That is at least partly because most players really don't want scenarios that are realistic.  People want balance as a game.  If we tried to play the normal kinds of engagements of WW2 we'd have a helluva a lot less Tigers running around  

Yes indeed. The US Army did an analysis of armored engagements in the ETO 1944-45 and calculated the average number of participating tanks or TDs were 9 US and 4 German. In the CM1 QBs where each category of unit type had separate point limits the Germans were allotted far less for armor than the Allies. I liked that feature but there were some vocal haters.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Vanir Ausf B

[sburke]

2 hours ago, Holman said:

Maybe we're playing the game Allied soldiers *thought* they were playing, where every PzIV is a Tiger.

Hell every kubelwagen is a Tiger in CM gaming.

[Sgt.Squarehead]

IIRC CMx1 used to misidentify units based on the perceptions of the observer, I seem to recall a very scared regular 6pdr shooting itself dry at a 'Tiger' (actually a Pz.IV) and an overconfident Pershing losing a duel with a Panther (actually a Kingtiger).....I rather liked it TBH.