On-map mortar spotting rounds

[jurpo]

I haven't bothered to make a test scenario for this, but mortar behaviour seems a bit wacky at times. For instance, yesterday I ordered a 60mm mortar take out a MG team behind a bocage while two squads of infantry were suppressing the MG with area fire. All were regular units. Mortar had clear line of sight to the MG as well as to all of the area in between them.

The distance from the mortar to the MG was 230 metres. The first spotting round flew 140 metres -- not 2/3rds of the required distance -- and the next spotting round even less, 110 metres, under half of the distance to the target, and too close for comfort for the suppressing teams.

Now, I can understand misjudging the distance for the first round, but as the crew saw the spot where the first round landed how can the second round be even shorter? Would make sense to shoot longer instead. Of course after the weird spotting rounds the crew started pumping the grenades onto the MG team with sniper accuracy.

I tend to be a bit too aggressive and push attacking infantry too close to my own indirect fire, so spotting rounds landing short can sometimes ruin an attack. Since I tend to notice those easier than long rounds it colors my perception -- as said, haven't made a test scenario. But, anyone with similar observations?

[c3k]

What was the mortar teams experience level, leadership, morale, and suppression? Had they fired the 2nd round before the first round landed?

[stoex]

Why in the name of everything that is good and makes sense would a mortar firing in direct lay launch a second spotting round before the first one landed (or at least should have landed, if they couldn't see it)? That would be incredibly stupid behaviour IMO. How would they know in what way to adjust the second round? That's kinda why they're called spotting rounds, no?

P.S.: Sorry for being blunt but you gotta agree that this should absolutely never happen, even to an untrained jittery mortar crew. It's just common sense, isn't it?

[jurpo]

What was the mortar teams experience level, leadership, morale, and suppression? Had they fired the 2nd round before the first round landed?

Unfortunately I don't have a savegame, so going by memory: it was a regular crew that hadn't been shot at during the scenario. The platoon leader was not far away, and could be seen from the mortar position, so I assume at least visual contact although I have no clear recollection of that. Overall morale was high, as I had had at that point only four casualties altogether out of two companies. The rounds were not in flight at the same time. All in all no adverse effects as far as I know, but as said, this is from memory.

Will save the game the next time this happens.

[womble]

Will save the game the next time this happens.

Sounds to me like it's just one of those "one in a million" combinations of RNG variations. Mistakes happen, even when there's no particular outside pressures. I bet the mortar crews ears were burning with embarrasment, when they realised they'd turned the elevation screw the wrong way for the second spotted round.

[c3k]

Why in the name of everything that is good and makes sense would a mortar firing in direct lay launch a second spotting round before the first one landed (or at least should have landed, if they couldn't see it)? That would be incredibly stupid behaviour IMO. How would they know in what way to adjust the second round? That's kinda why they're called spotting rounds, no?

P.S.: Sorry for being blunt but you gotta agree that this should absolutely never happen, even to an untrained jittery mortar crew. It's just common sense, isn't it?

stoex,

Far from being "blunt", you've merely clouded the issue with an emotional appeal against behavior which hasn't even been posited as occurring.

I asked my questions to gain more information before I formed an opinion. FWIW, I agree that a 2nd spotting round shouldn't be fired until after the 1st should've impacted.

Unfortunately, since there are no savegames, we'll never know what happened. (I'm not even willing to agree that 2nd impact was from the mortar. It could have been an impact from some German ordnance, a different piece of US ordnance, or some form of OBA. It could also have been from the same mortar, as posted.)

Agreed, IF anyone had seen a definitive case of multiple spotting rounds being fired prior to the previous round impacting, it would need to be looked at.

[Pak40]

Stoex,

c3k was just asking if the 2nd round has fired before the first landed, he didn't say that it did. I have used the mortars a lot in the direct fire role and have yet to see this issue. In fact, it's a non-issue so let's drop it before any nasty rumors get started.

As for the 2nd spotting round being more off target than the first, I think I've seen this happen before. It's an odd occurrence for sure and in all probability shouldn't happen. However, I do recall reading Eugene Sledge's autobiography where some of the mortar charges got wet from the rain and caused the rounds to fall short. I think this was depicted in a scene in HBO's The Pacific.

[stoex]

Again, sorry. Rereading my post I notice I came over quite a bit differently than I intended.

I didn't mean it to be interpreted as something that I thought had actually happened, or even something that could happen in the game engine. I was merely astounded because it seemed to me that c3k actually did think it might have happened. If it was possible, that would seem such a grave oversight, or strange design decision if it were intentional, that I guess I got overexcited.

What I really meant to say was simply "Boy, I hope that's not what's happening." Or words to that effect.

As has been said, move along, nothing to see here...