ww2steel Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I did a quick search of the forum and didn't see an explanation in the manual. Sorry if I missed it. When I want to take JUST a platoon and I trim it out of a battalion of troops the platoon costs 156, everything else is gone, triple checked, but the battalion costs 206… why? Is it like tax or something, some C&C fee for attaching it to another unit (the tank platoon already purchased)? Is there a way to JUST buy the platoon out of the BN that I have missed or is the trimming down the only way? Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Could it be something to do with unit experience, morale and weaponry choices? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww2steel Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 I really don't know what it is. The platoon as selected was 156 (no bazookas, etc) in the right panel, already bought, but the BN cost was 206 even though everything else was deleted and zeroed. The 'typical' points conversion had already been given to it because it had already been bought, but I was still being 'charged' for 50 extra points. I have been just kind of keeping a mental note of it trying to figure out if it was a bug or not and since I've been unable to figure it out I decided to finally post. I had the 'suggested' tank platoon. I deleted the rockets and FO (map too small) and took instead this inf plt, only to find (as I had seen before) that the platoon costs more than the platoon says it costs. Again, I am not talking about how points change after you buy 'em. I am talking about how the sum of the unit doesn't equal, well, the sum of the unit. Anybody else seeing this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Anybody else seeing this? Yes. I'm not sure of any of this - it's all just based on fiddling around with forces for QBs rather than a real examination, but: I think it's something like a 50 point charge on formations after the first. IIRC I found a case where that didn't happen, so I'm not sure what's going on. But an extra 50 points is what I've come to expect. Maybe it's only when you mix formations from more than one category? Why not buy everything as individual vehicles/teams? Because you also seem to get a discount on units bought as part as a formation. At least sometimes. IIRC 52 points for a German MG section as part of a formation vs. 56 points as a team. I imagine the idea is that you're rewarded for fielding a realistic force, with "Adheres to a coherent TOE." as the measure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Is there a way to JUST buy the platoon out of the BN that I have missed or is the trimming down the only way? Nope you've not missed anything. You have to buy a larger formation and prune it back. The 50 point thing has been mentioned before. As far as I can see for five minutes tinkering in the QB purchase screen for the Americans, it's a straight "50 points for each formation". It means it's more efficient, points-wise to buy, say, 1 company of Inf, rather than a platoon each of Inf, Mech Inf and Airborne, with the mortar platoon out of an Armour company. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww2steel Posted August 2, 2011 Author Share Posted August 2, 2011 I guess that makes sense... kind of. I'll look into it more. Maybe instead of a platoon of armor & inf I should take inf and add armor to it. I'll check on what is cheaper. The process seems really tedious & complicated compared to the way it used to be, but that topic's been worn out and I don't want to get everyone riled up again! I'm glad we can pick our troops at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I guess that makes sense... kind of. I'll look into it more. Maybe instead of a platoon of armor & inf I should take inf and add armor to it. I'll check on what is cheaper. The upside to buying formations is that their elements are generally cheaper than if you buy them as individual addons. An additional downside, though, is that they form their own separate chain of command where individual addons get incorporated into the parent formation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 The upside to buying formations is that their elements are generally cheaper than if you buy them as individual addons. An additional downside, though, is that they form their own separate chain of command where individual addons get incorporated into the parent formation. I discovered a way to avoid that by eliminating the second formation's command echelon entirely. Its former units then become subordinate to the original formation. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I discovered a way to avoid that by eliminating the second formation's command echelon entirely. Its former units then become subordinate to the original formation. Michael You can do that? Gosh! [scurries off] [returns] How? I just plucked an Infantry Battalion, which I left intact, then pruned a Tank Battalion down to a Platoon. It wouldn't let me get rid of Coy HQ while there were still multiple platoons, or Bttn while there were still multiple companies. It wouldn't let me delete the Platoon HQ tank. So I thought maybe it'd default into being a detachment included in the Inf Battn when I loaded the map. Nope. What am I missing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 You can do that? Gosh! [scurries off] Er, maybe not. I thought I did in a previous QB, but I tried it a couple of times this morning and couldn't get it to work. Sorry... Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Er, maybe not. I thought I did in a previous QB, but I tried it a couple of times this morning and couldn't get it to work. Sorry... Michael You tease! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww2steel Posted August 3, 2011 Author Share Posted August 3, 2011 Okay, I just tried to take a Tiger Platoon and trim it to a single tank. Nothing else on there. 338 points by itself, I'm being charged 388 at the top. I screw around and finally get it to only give me the BN HQ tank, sure enough, 392 but being charged. 442. ???? it's the only thing on there. Rarity is zeroed. Deleted all. Tried an inf Co. Total plus 50 points. Add a 434 point Tiget to the Inf Co you only get charged 434 points. Add a 319 Tiger (Zug HQ) from a separate formation and you get charged 369 for the non-existant remaining BN. THE SHORT VERSION: You get charged +50pts for each formation. Bug? Probably not. It is annoying regardless. CHEAPER TO BUY TWO FORMATIONS OR ADD A TANK? Pzgrn Plt (armored, dismounted, simply 4 squads) + a Tiger mid, All reg, norm, etc Two formations: 144+348+50+50 = 592 Add on Tiger: 144+363+50 = 557 It is as I (we) guessed, it's cheaper to do add-ons. Hope this helps everyone at least a little. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 It is as I (we) guessed, it's cheaper to do add-ons. Hope this helps everyone at least a little. Of course it is for single vehicles. A very quick futz around in the editor suggests that it's about even for buying a platoon (but you get an HQ-capable vehicle as the bonus), and for anything more than that, it's cheaper to get a detachement from another battalion than buy all of them as singletons. I was working with Shermans M4A376(w) early in July at a 15 point discount over the singletons. Interestingly, Tigers at 100 points more are also a 15 point discount over singletons. So, arithmetic tells us that the break-even for tanks appears to be somewhere between 3 and 4 vehicles. I'll let you do your own price comparisons for other classes of unit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 You tease! Hadja goin', didn't I? (Actually, I'm disappointed too. ) Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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