Three fire teams per Marine squad vs. two per Army infantry squad.

[IMHO]

I wonder if anyone has a text explaining the following things:

1. Why Marines have three fire teams per squad whereas an Army infantry squad has two?

2. Why Marines prefer an infantry heavy TO&E in general whereas Army has an armor heavy TO&E?

I can speculate at a high level why it's done and what are the pros and cons so I'm looking for a deeper analysis.

[Tank Hunter]

I wonder if anyone has a text explaining the following things:

1. Why Marines have three fire teams per squad whereas an Army infantry squad has two?

2. Why Marines prefer an infantry heavy TO&E in general whereas Army has an armor heavy TO&E?

I can speculate at a high level why it's done and what are the pros and cons so I'm looking for a deeper analysis.

In order to get the answer to the first question your 2nd question must be answered first.

The Army and Marines are constructed for different roles. The Army is a heavy equipped force that not only requires longer deployment time but it also requires a platform before it can start its operations. The platform required is in most cases friendly territory often through local allies like in Desert Storm in 91.

The Marines on the other hand are a much faster reacting force due to their mobile platform aka the Navy and its' Carrier Groups. The role of Marines is to strike at any given time on any place on the planet. Due to this role they are limited to how many heavy weapons they can bring and carry. Large tanks and AFVs not only require space and take up weight but they also heavily rely on supplies like fuel and field maintenance.

The Marines are supposed to invade a potential hostile country either by sea landings or helicopter insertion. This means that they must sacrifice tanks and AFVs for helicopters and sea landing APCs.

But how does it help them with 3 fire teams instead of 2? Well once on the ground a beach head must be secured or some other objective must be completed. As with any other fights firepower is crucial. Whoever is able to expose the other side to more lead most often wins. The Marines try to cope with this requirement by having bigger squads. More boots on the ground = more weapons. More weapons = More firepower.

The army can afford to have fewer fire teams due to the backing of armor while the marines must carry as much as possible in their squads. Once a beach head has been established then Marines can bring in their own tanks but initially they must rely on infantry with air and sea support.

[Erik Springelkamp]

I don't understand the question. Though marines have larger squads, both marines and army squads have 3 fire teams in CMSF.

[IMHO]

I don't understand the question. Though marines have larger squads, both marines and army squads have 3 fire teams in CMSF.

3 fireteams are in MOUT battalions. Standard TO&E has 2.

[Erik Springelkamp]

3 fireteams are in MOUT battalions. Standard TO&E has 2.

Ah, I have evidently not played many base game scenarios.

[c3k]

Also, think about casualties.

Marines are expected to take more casualties...and remain effectively in combat. (This is at the unit level.)

Army units are assumed to have access to reinforcements to replace casualties.

There has been a lot of thought over the years about the minimum effective size of a squad. The numbers flux, but less than 7 and you cannot take a casualty and stay in the fight. (Play the Germans with their 6 man squads. You'll see how "brittle" they can be at that size.)

Anyway, these numbers are subject to a lot of heated debate. Regardless, the Marine squad can take a lot more casualties and still be an effective SQUAD when compared to the Army SQUAD. That's the role of assault troops.

(Emphasis to ensure that this idoes not inflame the individual soldier/Marine comparisons.)

[Blackladder]

Someone posted this info somewhere on the forums, explaining the different doctrines in various armies and their changes over the years.

Basically it boils down to:

-studies showed that a person can optimally control 3 subordinates directly, hence why an SL controls 3 FTLs, each one controlling 3 fireteam members

-the Army, for various budgetary reasons, during the Cold War cut down the size of a squad, planning on reimplementing 13-men squad in case of a war, but never did so, and now changed its doctrine to revolve around the standard of a 9-men squad.