James Crowley Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 CMX1 was a platoon level game as far as C2 was concerned; if a squad was out of command there was a time delay in following orders. That was pretty much it apart from Co. and Batt. HQs filling in for lost platoon HQs. CMBNs C2 is more detailed and complete, in theory, but I find it difficult to understand or measure the exact consequences of various levels of HQ being in or out of command. Squad to platoon is fairly obvious but what is the effect/effects, for instance, if the platoon is out of command from it's Co. HQ and/or the Co. HQ is out of command of the Battalion HQ? Are these effects quantifiable in any meaningful gameplay sense or is the information hidden under the hood? Also I find the description in the manual (page 64; section 7) a tad confusing. It states that "this part of the interface does not tell you anything about the selected unit being in command with it's parent unit" and states that the red or green indicators relate to the selected units HQ being in contact with higher HQs. That being the case, a red mark against the Batt. HQ indicates what? From my limited observations, if a squad is not in contact with the platoon HQ, there is always a red marker against the platoon HQ, irrespective of whether the platoon HQ is in contact with it's Co. HQ or not or any other higher HQ. Or am I reading this right? In fact the more I read this section, the less I feel that I truly understand it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 The C2 GUI has two parts. The red and green marks tell you the state of C2 going up the line. A red marker next to Btn HQ means that the platoon/company HQ is not in contact with Btn. So even if your rifle squad restore contact with platoon HQ you won't get contact to Btn HQ. The other part is the one above the suppression meter. It tells you if a squad is in C2 to or not. To what unit depends on which HQ unit is closest in terms of C2 and is usually its immediate superior. As for broken C2 links, it hampers information sharing which can lead to many spurious contact markers and in some slower spotting. Your guys will also feel less confident (morale drops if a squad is out of C2) and fight worse. And of course you can't call in fire support missions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 The C2 GUI has two parts. The red and green marks tell you the state of C2 going up the line. A red marker next to Btn HQ means that the platoon/company HQ is not in contact with Btn. So even if your rifle squad restore contact with platoon HQ you won't get contact to Btn HQ. The other part is the one above the suppression meter. It tells you if a squad is in C2 to or not. To what unit depends on which HQ unit is closest in terms of C2 and is usually its immediate superior. As for broken C2 links, it hampers information sharing which can lead to many spurious contact markers and in some slower spotting. Your guys will also feel less confident (morale drops if a squad is out of C2) and fight worse. And of course you can't call in fire support missions. Instinctively I agree with you and believe that is how it works. However the manual (which I believe to be wrong) is at odds with your first paragraph. It states that a red marker against the platoon HQ means that the Platoon HQ is not in contact with the Co. HQ and that a green marker next to the Co. HQ means that the Co. is in contact with Batt. Which would leave a marker next to the Batt. HQ relating to a next highest and non-existant HQ! In regard to the other effects, I am not sure (because there is no easy way to measure them) that the old CMX1 order delay didn't impose more of an obvious penalty. The further away a unit from its HQ, the longer the delay. Generic, not wholly realistic but measurable and quantifiable. Is a Squad, that is in contact with its immediate Platoon HQ, penalised if that Platoon HQ is not in contact with Co. HQ and, if so, to what extent? If the penalty only applies to spotting, then I am not sure how much of a penalty that is since, as player, I can choose to see the aggreagate of all spotted units anyway. Sure, that unit cannot fire at units that it has not personally spotted but, if it can't draw LoS to those units anyway, it probably couldn't fire at them in any event. I dunno. I just feel that the C2 system, whilst I am sure it is realistic, is too opaque to easily make reasoned judgements about positioning and to know exactly what consequences are in effect - which may reflect reality anyway! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 The red marker relates to the unit below it. So a red marker next to the platoon HQ means that the selected unit is out of contact with its platoon commander. Then a red cross beside the Company HQ indicates that the Platoon HQ in not in C2/Comms Link with the company commander. Thus a red cross beside the battalion HQ indicates that the company commander is out of contact with the battalion HQ. What the quantifiable effects are of being out of the C2 loop are only BF knows. Spotting is an effect one can easily see, though with the players God's eye view and the ability to area fire anyway - discussed on here a week or two ago - its impact is uncertain. The ability to call down artillery support fire is also compromised. Other than, that who knows how much it affects morale and fighting ability? You could play a few games ignoring the C2 aspect and see how you get on. If you do, please be sure to let us know the results. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 The red marker relates to the unit below it. So a red marker next to the platoon HQ means that the selected unit is out of contact with its platoon commander. Then a red cross beside the Company HQ indicates that the Platoon HQ in not in C2/Comms Link with the company commander. Thus a red cross beside the battalion HQ indicates that the company commander is out of contact with the battalion HQ. Fully agree but, as I said above, its not what it says in the manual. However, that is how I intend to continue to interpret that information. I see you are in Sussex. Whereabouts? I'm in Yapton, nr Arundel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen Von Television Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Don't say! I'd been visiting Arundel many years ago: actually I was staying in Worthing... Anyway I also have some doubt about all this C2 effectiveness and how the player should really take care of it: I've just finished the Raff Campaign (a Total Victory) as my fifth Battle using CMX2 (naturally I'd been playing almost all WWII with CMX1) and here one platoon leader of F Co (one of the reinforcements) was suddenly killed while watching at one hedgerow just close to the road where they appeared; the XO took charge of the HQ section, but was a -1 leader, so the whole platoon entered combat at least Cautious or nervous, and they had a few casualties too while moving up to the line... I thought to leave the XO behind caring for the wounded (nice touch the Medic Buddy Aid BTW) since (I believe they arrived later on) it came the F Co HQ section who was a +2 CO, but when the platoon entered the fray even very close to the F CO they remained quite inefficient: either the C2 cannot be transferred to a superior HQ, or eventually the still present XO prevented that? In any case this is another astonishing point about this sim: when the platoon leader was killed there wasn't a real fight going on, and not even a sniper was on the scene; they were behind a tall hedgerow, so seemingly it was a stray shot, and he was the only casualty in that transitory position; that should have been shocking for all his men... He was a good leader and he is still remembered to this days at the Vet gatherings... I Salute Him too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I see you are in Sussex. Whereabouts? I'm in Yapton, nr Arundel. Yapton, is the Maypole still going? I remember it as a good pub, but so many country pubs have closed in recent years. I am further East near Hurstpierpoint. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Yapton, is the Maypole still going? I remember it as a good pub, but so many country pubs have closed in recent years. I am further East near Hurstpierpoint. Yes, still serving real ale and offering a beer festival every year - to supplement the CAMRA one on the village green in May! Although one of my colleagues lives in your neck of the woods, I am woefully ignorant of East Sussex. I suppose I would qualify as a bit of a local 'hayseed' I should get out more but CMBN will put paid to that. If you are up for a PBEM, pm or email me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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