siffo998 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 ok after reading that the tech support thread is only a self-help forum without post from the officials i decided to repost my thread here: maybe now steve reads it and gives me an answer because this question nags me for some time now: ---------------------- There was a thread back in the normal forum covering mainly the same problem but i`ve got no real answer to my question so i try now here to get one... My question is: to what is the "optics damage" reffering ? the commander optics ? the gunner optics ? the loaders periscope ? all together ? maybe someone of the battlefront staff could clear this up because there is no note in the manual...! Iàm asking this question mainly because in tank versus tank test i expirienced multiple situations where a tanks optics were completely destroyed (red X) but he could still spot targets and kill them without any problems (at least not any noticeable problems). the most extreme example was when a tiger tank (buttoned) killed 3 shermans 1200m+ away with 5 shots (each one hit a target) while his optics were down. if the optics damage is really reffering to the gunners optics than that should not be happening ? or am i wrong ? this situation was reproduceable with a panther A but not with a jagdpanzer 4 or an panther D which simple could not spot any targets after his optics were down. maybe please somebody from the battlefront staff could clear this up to what optics the optics damage is really reffering to... because till now i dont have a clue if my tanks are useless after their optics are down or not...! I not want to start a discussion if their is something missing or broken etc. i just want to know to what the "optics damage" is reffering. I think that multiple other players would be also interested in this information. By the way i`ve read in the shock force manual that back in those days there was a difference between optics damage and targetings system damage. could it be that optics damage in cmbn is only reffering to the ability of the tank to spot in buttoned mode and that it has nothing todo with the actual gunner sights and the ability to aim at targets ? anyway a list which explains to what systems those damage terms are reffering to and which exact limitations follow when they are damaged would be nice for future releases... some are obvious other are not... for example to what is "weapon controls" reffering (from my understanding weapon controls could also refer to the gunners aiming sights) ? thanks in advance siffo here are the original posts about this theme if somebody is interested: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=98383&highlight=optics and http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=98307 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Links are broken. I'd like to know this too, given that I probably started one of those threads. It's one of those obscure things in the game that nobody seems to understand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 thx for the hint vanir now they should work... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 also, it should be added that the Tiger is bugged and can see perfectly fine with optics destroyed (at least people think its a bug) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 For what it's worth, I noticed the same issue in CM:SF. Tanks with destroyed optics were still able to target enemy units at will. This issue, is not like the "low wall" problem where we can setup our own tests to try and determine what is going on (i.e. we cannot place tanks on the map with optics already destroyed). It is one of those things where a problem seems to exist but it is very difficult to nail it down with data. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 we cannot place tanks on the map with optics already destroyed No, but we can put them on the map and then destroy the optics http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=98383&highlight=optics Interesting that the issue has been around for awhile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 hm when this issue is out for so long then has steve ever confirmed that optics are really reffering to the gunners optics (as far as i know he hasnt) ? if this is not confirmed than actually nobody knows to what optics damage in cmbn is really reffering to ! maybe weapon controls is reffering to the aiming system of the gunner ? thats why iam asking that question and thats why i want an offial answer because only the guys who have programmed it could answer to what it is really reffering to ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 For what it's worth, I noticed the same issue in CM:SF. Tanks with destroyed optics were still able to target enemy units at will. as i`ve stated in my post above... there was a difference in cmsf between optics damage and targeting damage. so i see no problem why in cmsf your tank could still target enemys when his optics are down! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 hm when this issue is out for so long then has steve ever confirmed that optics are really reffering to the gunners optics (as far as i know he hasnt) ? if this is not confirmed than actually nobody knows to what optics damage in cmbn is really reffering to ! maybe weapon controls is reffering to the aiming system of the gunner ? thats why iam asking that question and thats why i want an offial answer because only the guys who have programmed it could answer to what it is really reffering to ! Agreed, this would be a very good starting point. We need to know the definitions of the parameters modeled under the Damage Report, such as: CM:SF - Targeting, IR Optics CM:BN - Wpn Controls, Optics 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 hm... after some researching in the editor and the manual i`ve found out that the m4 tanks (everyone of them but the 105mm) havent got any optics damage. they have wpn controls and gyro... but they havent any optics damage... the 105mm has optics damage... thats really really strange...now iam really confused to what optics damage is reffering...! I am thinking more and more that weapon controls is actually reffering to the gunners aiming sights...! hope steve shows up soon and clears this up...! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 forget about that last comment from me...just tested it and the m4 also has optics damage (it showed up after he was hit...too much damage terms in the info box)... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 The Sherman 105mm had no gyro-stabilisation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 The Sherman 105mm had no gyro-stabilisation. I could be mistaken, but didn't the "mid" 105 include GS? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Tery Gander has it in "Tanks in Detail: Medium Tank M4 [ 76mm & 105mm] " that there was no gyro nor for that matter a power traverse. I don't have Hunnycutt. : ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hmm.... well thanks for going to the trouble to correct my misunderstanding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 No problem. Gander could be wrong and in any event one should always quote the source. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 just posted to push that threat back to the top...so that steve maybe reads it and answers my original question...! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Tery Gander has it in "Tanks in Detail: Medium Tank M4 [ 76mm & 105mm] " that there was no gyro nor for that matter a power traverse. I don't have Hunnycutt. : ) No gyro or power traverse in a 105 assault gun, I can understand and believe. I'd be surprised if he was right about the 76mm-armed versions, though with their turret being a different design... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 just the third try to bring this thread back to focus so that steve maybe reads it and gives me an answer to my question... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 siffo, I've had optics knocked out on tanks (red cross in the damage panel) which meant the tank was then unable to use its main gun; M4 and Panther. It looks like the different optical blocks can be damaged separately. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 problem is that i`ve experienced multiple situations including the one mentioned in the first post where a tanks optics where gone but he could still spot and kill enemys... ! I played one game yesterday (crossroads defense mission) where my panthers optics were down but he could still spot and kill tanks, halftracks and infantry at 500m distance. he had some problems with spotting but the moment he spotted something he was able to kill it... my guess is that optics damage just modells the vision blocks and that wpn controls damage or the main gun damage itself includes the aiming sights of the gunner... but this is just a guess and as long as nobody from the design crew confirms it iam just tapping in the dark...! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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